3 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 6, 2010
Dear All,
Few weeks ago in my attic while inspecting drawers of very old and wrecked desk that belonged to my grandfather (maybe even older) I've found a red box with a watch! Emblem on a box and watch is "International Watch CO Schaffhausen". The watch must have been bought before 1986 - my grandfather died that year, and no one else remember to buy such a watch later. I went to watchmaker, he opened the watch and stated that this is definitelly an original IWC, but couldn't tell me much about it. He just wrote down the numbers from inside - they are as follows: (inner side of a back plate) 1640217 (on mechanism) C89 1560837
On a winder (knob) there is fish engraved.
Watch has golden color (I don't know if it's really gold) except for the back plate that looks silver. Could You please tell me more about it? - is it make of gold, what model is it, from what year, was it a high-class, or rather regular, in the time of its production? Thank You!
Below are the pictures of this watch (follow the image links twice for bigger photos):
2. The movement is a Calibre 89 --IWC's "workhorse" manual wind, central seconds movement from the late 1940s on. You can find out much about from searching the archives section.
3 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 6, 2010
Michael thank You for reply! I went through the catalogues - took me some time :)
But first I measured my watch - its 34mm in outer diameter:
The closest match I found is: http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1966/0000041.jpg Ref. 309 (or maybe even 709 because mine looks gold - except for the back plate) From 1966. However... when you look closely there is a difference: 12th hour double marks shape is different - I depicted it on the picture below: Those marks look like on Ingenieur serie watches - although I doubt mine is Ingenieur, it lacks "Ingenieur" emblem near hour 6.
Also, my watch has double "Leuchtpunkte" above 12 (as You can see on picture) and all of the watches I found have single or the picture resolution is too low to say - as in the Ref. 309 (709) case.
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1957/0000008.jpg Ref. 607 differences: diameter 0,5mm lesser than mine (ok, it may be accuracy problem); single "Leuchtpunkte"; different 12 hour marks (same as with 309); bit different lugs
So, the bottom line is that I haven't found watch that looks exactly like mine. 1966' 309 (709) is so close... but those marks! ..and I can't see if there is one "Leuchtpunkte" or double above them.
Thank You again - I will keep looking, If You have more suggestions please be so nice and post reply. Best Regards
1,075 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 22, 2001
From looking at the pictures, your grandfather's watch is an original Cal 89. The dial looks to be original and having the "mixte" case is certainly in tune with the times. During the 40s, 50s and even up to 60s, it was not unusual to find watches with gold or gold filled bezels and steel backs. It was a way for watch companies to keep their prices down. From time to time, some speculate that the original owners may have have either sold their "gold" backs or had them melted down as gold was more valuable than steel on the back of the watch. However, IWC catalogues clearly mention "mixte" cases.
A wonderful find! Certainly a treasure to remember you grandfather and hopefully, you can pass it down to the next generation.
If you take the back off, there usually is the reference number engraved on the inside caseback. But get a watchmaker to help you; then either copy down all information or take a digital photo.
3 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 6, 2010
Larry - Thanks for reply, indeed I found mixed (gold + steel back) watches. The mentioned 709 from 1966 catalogue is such example (and as You read in my previous post it's quite similar to mine).
Michael - If I had the reference no. would I perform this whole investigation in my previous post? No :) All numbers I found are in my first post, but they don't resemble reference no. Or maybe Ref. No. is somehow "encoded" in one of these numbers? It would be great to know the exact model of my watch or at least production year (assuming it's really genuine article)
271 Discussions and CommentsMember since July 27, 2008
Hi,
You could order an extract from the IWC archives with the casenumber (1640217) and mouvementnumber (1560837). That way you can find out more about the watch (ref. number, when it was sold). How to get it should be somewhere on this new site, but I haven't found it yet.
1,017 Discussions and CommentsMember since July 16, 2001Singapore,
Singapore
Hi - your find dates from the early 60s.
The case and movement serial numbers allow us to date the movement and give an approximate date for when the movement was cased and sold:
Findings and tentative datings for: Movement number 1,560,837 Case number 1,640,217
Main findings: The movement is a calibre 89, dating from the year 1961. The case was most probably produced around 1964 and delivered up to 1964.
Valid entry in "Index of Movement Numbers" 1961 1,557,401-1,561,000 c. 89 - 12lig. S.C. INCA Valid entries in "Index of Case Numbers" 1960-1970 1,495,000-1,826,000 current IWC index not fully compatible with old list from 2001 (1970 value doubtful) 1962-1964 1,600,000-1,700,000 old IWC index compatible with new case index of 2002
This is based on the serial number information published by IWC and very kindly and most helpfully compiled by a forum member into an application and an applet "Date Your IWC". The applet is here: http://moeb.on-rev.com/dyIWC/dyIWC.irev
2 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 21, 2010Budapest,
Hungary
Hello everybody! I'm new to this forum fromBudapest, Hungary. I've recently bought an18K mechanical IWC with C89. Can anyone help me how old exactly it is, and what's the ref.? Case No.: 1237117 (there's a small frame with 170 in it below the case No.) Movement: 1371386 I'd happily attach a picture, but I don't know how to do it. Thanks for the help
Few weeks ago in my attic while inspecting drawers of very old and wrecked desk that belonged to my grandfather (maybe even older) I've found a red box with a watch!
Emblem on a box and watch is "International Watch CO Schaffhausen".
The watch must have been bought before 1986 - my grandfather died that year, and no one else remember to buy such a watch later.
I went to watchmaker, he opened the watch and stated that this is definitelly an original IWC, but couldn't tell me much about it. He just wrote down the numbers from inside - they are as follows:
(inner side of a back plate) 1640217
(on mechanism) C89 1560837
On a winder (knob) there is fish engraved.
Watch has golden color (I don't know if it's really gold) except for the back plate that looks silver.
Could You please tell me more about it? - is it make of gold, what model is it, from what year, was it a high-class, or rather regular, in the time of its production? Thank You!
Below are the pictures of this watch (follow the image links twice for bigger photos):
Normally I'd research your watch but with the start of the new forum here I'm a bit tied up. However, might I suggest:
1. You go to the following link and search for the model in the 1950s or '60's:
http://www.iwcforum.com/Vintage_Catalogs.html
2. The movement is a Calibre 89 --IWC's "workhorse" manual wind, central seconds movement from the late 1940s on. You can find out much about from searching the archives section.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Michael
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
I went through the catalogues - took me some time :)
But first I measured my watch - its 34mm in outer diameter:
The closest match I found is:
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1966/0000041.jpg
Ref. 309 (or maybe even 709 because mine looks gold - except for the back plate)
From 1966.
However... when you look closely there is a difference: 12th hour double marks shape is different - I depicted it on the picture below:
Those marks look like on Ingenieur serie watches - although I doubt mine is Ingenieur, it lacks "Ingenieur" emblem near hour 6.
Also, my watch has double "Leuchtpunkte" above 12 (as You can see on picture) and all of the watches I found have single or the picture resolution is too low to say - as in the Ref. 309 (709) case.
The other similar watches:
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1966/0000029.jpg
Ref. 309-A
differences: mine lacks "Automatic"; different 12 hour marks (same as with 309)
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1957/0000029.jpg
Ref. 1206 (bottom-left)
differences: diameter of the above is 26mm (mine 34mm); single "Leuchtpunkte" above 12; bit different lugs
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1957/0000019.jpg
Ref. 666 A
differences: diameter of the above is 36,5mm; mine lacks "Ingenieur" emblem; single "Leuchtpunkte"
http://www.iwcforum.com/Catalogs/1957/0000008.jpg
Ref. 607
differences: diameter 0,5mm lesser than mine (ok, it may be accuracy problem); single "Leuchtpunkte"; different 12 hour marks (same as with 309); bit different lugs
So, the bottom line is that I haven't found watch that looks exactly like mine. 1966' 309 (709) is so close... but those marks! ..and I can't see if there is one "Leuchtpunkte" or double above them.
Thank You again - I will keep looking, If You have more suggestions please be so nice and post reply.
Best Regards
A wonderful find! Certainly a treasure to remember you grandfather and hopefully, you can pass it down to the next generation.
Best,
Larry
The greatest IWC is the one that is inbound."
Last edited: 23 July, 2011 - 19:23
Let us know what you find!
Regards,
Michael
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
Michael - If I had the reference no. would I perform this whole investigation in my previous post? No :) All numbers I found are in my first post, but they don't resemble reference no. Or maybe Ref. No. is somehow "encoded" in one of these numbers? It would be great to know the exact model of my watch or at least production year (assuming it's really genuine article)
Thank You
Best Regards
You could order an extract from the IWC archives with the casenumber (1640217) and mouvementnumber (1560837). That way you can find out more about the watch (ref. number, when it was sold). How to get it should be somewhere on this new site, but I haven't found it yet.
gr.
Bas
Regards,
Bas
The case and movement serial numbers allow us to date the movement and give an approximate date for when the movement was cased and sold:
Findings and tentative datings for:
Movement number 1,560,837
Case number 1,640,217
Main findings:
The movement is a calibre 89, dating from the year 1961.
The case was most probably produced around 1964 and delivered up to 1964.
Valid entry in "Index of Movement Numbers"
1961 1,557,401-1,561,000 c. 89 - 12lig. S.C. INCA
Valid entries in "Index of Case Numbers"
1960-1970 1,495,000-1,826,000 current IWC index not fully compatible with old list from 2001 (1970 value doubtful)
1962-1964 1,600,000-1,700,000 old IWC index compatible with new case index of 2002
This is based on the serial number information published by IWC and very kindly and most helpfully compiled by a forum member into an application and an applet "Date Your IWC". The applet is here:
http://moeb.on-rev.com/dyIWC/dyIWC.irev
Nice find - enjoy it.
Dirk
I've included a similar Ref 351 of approximately 30mm in diameter.
The dial differences may not refect seperate reference numbers, just that IWC used several dial suppliers giving rise to the dial variations.
Cheers from the cellar
cellar@gregsteer.net
Last edited: 4 January, 2013 - 22:35
I'm new to this forum fromBudapest, Hungary. I've recently bought an18K mechanical IWC with C89. Can anyone help me how old exactly it is, and what's the ref.?
Case No.: 1237117 (there's a small frame with 170 in it below the case No.)
Movement: 1371386
I'd happily attach a picture, but I don't know how to do it.
Thanks for the help