1,075 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 22, 2001
I came across two 866s the other day. One hacked and one didn't. The one that didn't came from 1969 and the one that did, came from 1971.
So I went to a great article written by 3 members of this Forum and found..."Also, shortly before 1970, IWC introduced the 8541B movement which featured some slight improvements. Although most 8541B movements "hack" and most 8541 movements do not, this is not the distinguishing characteristic between the two. Rather, the key difference is the use of a "Grenier" type collet on the "B" model. Oddly, IWC used both of these movements in the Ingenieur for a period of many years and designated both movements as "caliber 8541" in its archives.
Were there any other variations of the 8541 used in the Ref: 866 Ingenieur?
Larry Seiden Wrote: Were there any other variations of the 8541 used in the Ref: 866 Ingenieur?
Larry --not to my knowledge bejond the two you mention. I was the oriignal person who found out about the Grenier collet variation from an IWC employee and then "spread the word". I had asked then about all variations.
York --Thanks for your addenda...although Larry was asking about technical movement variations in Calibre 854x Ingenieurs. You may not know that he's an Inmgenieur expert and co-authored the following article:
13 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 6, 2009Perth,
Australia
Dear Michael, I am interested to know whether the 5 holes on the 'bezel' of the Ingenieur are aesthetic or whether they perform a function - i.e. removal of he bezel. In fact, is it a bezel? Am I using the correct term for the steel ring that looks as though it might be used to secure the crystal. Thank you - Russell
rascott Wrote:Dear Michael, I am interested to know whether the 5 holes on the 'bezel' of the Ingenieur are aesthetic or whether they perform a function - i.e. removal of he bezel. In fact, is it a bezel? Am I using the correct term for the steel ring that looks as though it might be used to secure the crystal. Thank you - Russell
Hi Russell,
The original holes on the bezel, which first occurred on the Jumbo Ingenieur deisgned by gerald Genta in the 1970s, were done because it was a ring that was screwed on to the top on the case. In fact, from model to model the bezel had the holes in different positions. I guess you could claim that they served a funtion, although of course there are other ways io have a bezel ring affixed to a case. I think it was part style but also part of the case design.
Since then, the holes have always been part of the distinctive look of the Ingenieur. When the new models first were reintroduced in 2005 (starting with reference 3227) the bezel also had the distinctive holes --but this time they were affixed with a bayonet type screw-in system. As such, they always align perfectly now. Again --part of the design, but the bezel does in fact remove and as such does serve a function.
13 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 6, 2009Perth,
Australia
Dear Michael, Thank you for the answer to my question. I am indeed grateful and I hope you don't mind another question. Do you know what materials are used in the watch dial. In particular, I am interested in the Mission Earth Plastiki Ingenieur. I would like to know what the dial plate is made of and how the blue colour is achieved - just paint or something more exotic. And I would like to know what metals are used in the hands and dials. Lastly, are you able to confirm my assumption that the orange colour is designed for daytime glow and that is the reason why there is no luminosity (at least not on mine) when the watch is in the dark. Thanks again - Russell.
Tim&Struppi Wrote:Dear Michael, Thank you for the answer to my question. I am indeed grateful and I hope you don't mind another question. Do you know what materials are used in the watch dial. In particular, I am interested in the Mission Earth Plastiki Ingenieur. I would like to know what the dial plate is made of and how the blue colour is achieved - just paint or something more exotic. And I would like to know what metals are used in the hands and dials. Lastly, are you able to confirm my assumption that the orange colour is designed for daytime glow and that is the reason why there is no luminosity (at least not on mine) when the watch is in the dark. Thanks again - Russell.
Hi Russell,
I don't know about this particular watch, but antimagnetic watches generally use "soft iron" dials which aren't iron but a base metal that has no magnetic properties. Conventional dials are brass.
I also don't know about this dial color, but most today aren't painted but use a hi-tech coating...kind of like PVD. Dial manufacture is a specialty. The hands and markers are probably brass, and then rhodium plated. This is true for most dials today by all companies, unless they are blued (either chemically or with heat).
I hope this is a little helpful. In the future, please consider starting a new thread if you have a new subject, so others can easily find it and join in.
So I went to a great article written by 3 members of this Forum and found..."Also, shortly before 1970, IWC introduced the 8541B movement which featured some slight improvements. Although most 8541B movements "hack" and most 8541 movements do not, this is not the distinguishing characteristic between the two. Rather, the key difference is the use of a "Grenier" type collet on the "B" model. Oddly, IWC used both of these movements in the Ingenieur for a period of many years and designated both movements as "caliber 8541" in its archives.
Were there any other variations of the 8541 used in the Ref: 866 Ingenieur?
Thanks,
Larry
The greatest IWC is the one that is inbound."
Last edited: 23 July, 2011 - 19:23
Larry --not to my knowledge bejond the two you mention. I was the oriignal person who found out about the Grenier collet variation from an IWC employee and then "spread the word". I had asked then about all variations.
regards,
Michael
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
866 and Cal.854x：
Ref. No New Scheme Calibre Catalogued Movement Description
866 A
1908
854
1967-1970
automatic
SS with strap or SS bracelet
854B ?
1970-1976
18 kt. gold with strap
866 AD
1808
8541
1967-1970
automatic calendar
SS with strap or SS bracelet
8541B
1970-1976
18 kt. gold with strap
9120 A
N/A
854
1967-1969
automatic
18 kt. gold with gold bracelet
9120 AD
N/A
8541
1967-1969
automatic calendar
18 kt. gold with gold bracelet
http://www.frizzellweb.com/larry/ingenieur/
Regards,
Michael
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
I am interested to know whether the 5 holes on the 'bezel' of the Ingenieur are aesthetic or whether they perform a function - i.e. removal of he bezel. In fact, is it a bezel? Am I using the correct term for the steel ring that looks as though it might be used to secure the crystal.
Thank you - Russell
Hi Russell,
The original holes on the bezel, which first occurred on the Jumbo Ingenieur deisgned by gerald Genta in the 1970s, were done because it was a ring that was screwed on to the top on the case. In fact, from model to model the bezel had the holes in different positions. I guess you could claim that they served a funtion, although of course there are other ways io have a bezel ring affixed to a case. I think it was part style but also part of the case design.
Since then, the holes have always been part of the distinctive look of the Ingenieur. When the new models first were reintroduced in 2005 (starting with reference 3227) the bezel also had the distinctive holes --but this time they were affixed with a bayonet type screw-in system. As such, they always align perfectly now. Again --part of the design, but the bezel does in fact remove and as such does serve a function.
Regards,
Michael
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
Thank you for the answer to my question. I am indeed grateful and I hope you don't mind another question.
Do you know what materials are used in the watch dial. In particular, I am interested in the Mission Earth Plastiki Ingenieur.
I would like to know what the dial plate is made of and how the blue colour is achieved - just paint or something more exotic. And I would like to know what metals are used in the hands and dials.
Lastly, are you able to confirm my assumption that the orange colour is designed for daytime glow and that is the reason why there is no luminosity (at least not on mine) when the watch is in the dark.
Thanks again - Russell.
Hi Russell,
I don't know about this particular watch, but antimagnetic watches generally use "soft iron" dials which aren't iron but a base metal that has no magnetic properties. Conventional dials are brass.
I also don't know about this dial color, but most today aren't painted but use a hi-tech coating...kind of like PVD. Dial manufacture is a specialty. The hands and markers are probably brass, and then rhodium plated. This is true for most dials today by all companies, unless they are blued (either chemically or with heat).
I hope this is a little helpful. In the future, please consider starting a new thread if you have a new subject, so others can easily find it and join in.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
With my best regards, Eric
Last edited: 25 June, 2011 - 21:14