626 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 20, 2008
Very nice collage, thanks for sharing Michael. Had no idea there was a white dial variation. I also don't recognize the one in the middle of the last row. Is that too a Mark 11 (perhaps civilian edition)?
1,910 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
An excellent collage of one of my favorite IWCs and definitely the best overall mechanical navigator/pilot watch ever made. Just about everything about that watch is perfect. The Mark 11, in the middle of the lower row, appears to be from the former B.O.A.C., but with the hands of the post-1963 Mark 11.
Evan --the white dial was actually an unofficial redial by a watchmaker when these watches were sold as surplus; there are reports and lengthy debates about that in the archives. One member here believes they could be authentic.
1,910 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
Evan Wrote:...Had no idea there was a white dial variation. Evan
The authors of the "Man is not Lost" excellent article on the Mark 11 say that ...the so called "white dial", all examples we have seen are brass, depriving the movement of the the MoD specified magnetic shielding. The authors are probably referring to the dial being made of brass, not the case, since it is not the case that protects the movement against magnetic fields. The movement in the Mark 11 is enclosed in a soft iron cylinder on the sides, on the bottom by a soft iron cover incorrectly called "dust cover", and on top by the soft iron dial. These 3 parts protect the movement. If the dial is made of brass, the watch would not be a-magnetic, unless there is a thin layer of soft iron between the dial and the movement, which no one mentioned. Since the Mark 11 was a tool for military use in a harsh magnetic environment, and the success of military missions, and lives of airmen depended on its accuracy, is highly unlikely the (so called) white dial, be a true Mark 11, IMHO.
670 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 13, 2002
clepsydra Wrote in reply to:
Evan Wrote:...Had no idea there was a white dial variation. Evan
The authors of the "Man is not Lost" excellent article on the Mark 11 say that ...the so called "white dial", all examples we have seen are brass, depriving the movement of the the MoD specified magnetic shielding. The authors are probably referring to the dial being made of brass, not the case, since it is not the case that protects the movement against magnetic fields. The movement in the Mark 11 is enclosed in a soft iron cylinder on the sides, on the bottom by a soft iron cover incorrectly called "dust cover", and on top by the soft iron dial. These 3 parts protect the movement. If the dial is made of brass, the watch would not be a-magnetic, unless there is a thin layer of soft iron between the dial and the movement, which no one mentioned. Since the Mark 11 was a tool for military use in a harsh magnetic environment, and the success of military missions, and lives of airmen depended on its accuracy, is highly unlikely the (so called) white dial, be a true Mark 11, IMHO.
The use of a brass dial will not determine that the faraday cage is not complete, it simply means it will have less resistance, though if somebody specifically coated it i'm sure the resistance could be highered. Lets pre-presume Mr. Dowlings lost the plot for a second and white dialled variants never appeared via MOD auctions, do you really think the person who is suggesting having fabricated them knew what to coat them with or had the wherewithall to also produce a black dialled copy of a white type just to keep tandem with the actions of the MOD themselves. If you look into it you'll also find an inbetween antimagnetic dial officially used by the British Military, this will be split through it's depth to provide half iron and half brass, looks like they were getting a touch specific.
P.S. IWC have produced non ironed dialled antimagnetic (-ish) watches with white dials for footballers.
626 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 20, 2008
Clepsydra & Michael - thank you for all the follow up info! I don't know if this is accurate or not but I had read somewhere that the BOAC Mark 11s were exactly the same as their military siblings but without the military engravings on the case.
670 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 13, 2002
clepsydra Wrote:An excellent collage of one of my favorite IWCs and definitely the best overall mechanical navigator/pilot watch ever made. Just about everything about that watch is perfect. The Mark 11, in the middle of the lower row, appears to be from the former B.O.A.C., but with the hands of the post-1963 Mark 11.
The watch in the middle is the stunt double in every way to the white variants, the fabricator was quoted to have chosen white to provide the market with choice and hurry the sales along, unfortunately whoever dreamt that porkie up needs to invent somesuch for it's black 1 st cousin.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
Had no idea there was a white dial variation.
I also don't recognize the one in the middle of the last row. Is that too a Mark 11 (perhaps civilian edition)?
Cheers,
Evan
evan_nanos at yahoo.com
The Mark 11, in the middle of the lower row, appears to be from the former B.O.A.C., but with the hands of the post-1963 Mark 11.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
Last edited: 8 November, 2012 - 12:49
Evan --the white dial was actually an unofficial redial by a watchmaker when these watches were sold as surplus; there are reports and lengthy debates about that in the archives. One member here believes they could be authentic.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
The authors of the "Man is not Lost" excellent article on the Mark 11 say that ...the so called "white dial", all examples we have seen are brass, depriving the movement of the the MoD specified magnetic shielding. The authors are probably referring to the dial being made of brass, not the case, since it is not the case that protects the movement against magnetic fields. The movement in the Mark 11 is enclosed in a soft iron cylinder on the sides, on the bottom by a soft iron cover incorrectly called "dust cover", and on top by the soft iron dial. These 3 parts protect the movement.
If the dial is made of brass, the watch would not be a-magnetic, unless there is a thin layer of soft iron between the dial and the movement, which no one mentioned.
Since the Mark 11 was a tool for military use in a harsh magnetic environment, and the success of military missions, and lives of airmen depended on its accuracy, is highly unlikely the (so called) white dial, be a true Mark 11, IMHO.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
http://www.iwcforum.com/Vintage/Mk11specs.jpg
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
The use of a brass dial will not determine that the faraday cage is not complete, it simply means it will have less resistance, though if somebody specifically coated it i'm sure the resistance could be highered. Lets pre-presume Mr. Dowlings lost the plot for a second and white dialled variants never appeared via MOD auctions, do you really think the person who is suggesting having fabricated them knew what to coat them with or had the wherewithall to also produce a black dialled copy of a white type just to keep tandem with the actions of the MOD themselves.
If you look into it you'll also find an inbetween antimagnetic dial officially used by the British Military, this will be split through it's depth to provide half iron and half brass, looks like they were getting a touch specific.
P.S. IWC have produced non ironed dialled antimagnetic (-ish) watches with white dials for footballers.
Last edited: 4 October, 2010 - 12:46
I don't know if this is accurate or not but I had read somewhere that the BOAC Mark 11s were exactly the same as their military siblings but without the military engravings on the case.
Cheers,
Evan
evan_nanos at yahoo.com
The watch in the middle is the stunt double in every way to the white variants, the fabricator was quoted to have chosen white to provide the market with choice and hurry the sales along, unfortunately whoever dreamt that porkie up needs to invent somesuch for it's black 1 st cousin.