1,911 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
I've just seen a Ref 666AD Ingenieur in stainless steel with a cal 8531, beautiful pristine NOS dial, but without a case number between the lugs, or anywhere else for that matter. No images available. Everything about the watch appears to be authentic. I was really puzzled. Would you have been?
1,911 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
lndblr Wrote:You are the expert but any time I don't see a case number on an IWC watch I question everything.
Although everything else was correct in the watch, I also questioned its authenticity and challenged the owner to get IWC's Extract from the Ledger. That should put the issue to rest. BTW, the military Mark 11s of the RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF, and the quasi-civilian Mark 11 of the former BOAC do not have case numbers, and are authentic IWCs.
3,732 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 28, 2001
Ross Wrote:Yes, the fakers are getting frighteningly good
If they are getting so good, what would be the problem to put a number on a place where it is to be expected? One good looking number would suffice, as you don't have to show more than one watch at a time.
Kind regards, Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
1,911 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
MF Wrote:I would be suspicious on this model. Exceptions are theoretically possible, but so are marriages.
The movement is authentic. The soft iron cage appears authentic. The dial and and hands also appear authentic, although I could not remove the dial to check if it is made of soft iron. The stainless steel case appeared legitimate but could be fabricated, or it could have been stolen from IWC in the 1960s before the case number was engraved. I also considered that the watch could be stolen and the case number filed away to prevent identification, but I did not notice evidence of that. There is a possibility this watch was actually put together outside of IWC with all IWC legitimate parts. If this is indeed the case this watch, nice as it is, is not a Ref 666AD Ingenieur, and is therefore worth only the value of each part. The rule Caveat Emptor aplies
1,911 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
Paul Bloemen Wrote in reply to:
Ross Wrote:Yes, the fakers are getting frighteningly good
If they are getting so good, what would be the problem to put a number on a place where it is to be expected? One good loking number would suffice, as you don't have to show more than one watch at a time.
Kind regards, Paul
An explanation may be that criminals, clever as they may be, are essentially lazy, and are only willing to invest the minimum effort they think they can get away with for a quick gain. If they were willing to work hard for their money, they would have an honest job.
2,081 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 7, 2005
And also, pantograph workings are not so easy to pefectly reproduce the original font and body. A bad work on serial number could represent a boomerang to counterfeiters.
I have heard, from a reliable inside source, of certain IWC Club models that were made in the late 1970s without numbered cases, and they were "assembled" outside of the factory with legitimate dial, movement and case parts. With the quartz crisis, some crazy things occurred in that time period.
Everything about the watch appears to be authentic. I was really puzzled.
Would you have been?
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
Last edited: 8 November, 2012 - 12:49
Although everything else was correct in the watch, I also questioned its authenticity and challenged the owner to get IWC's Extract from the Ledger. That should put the issue to rest.
BTW, the military Mark 11s of the RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF, and the quasi-civilian Mark 11 of the former BOAC do not have case numbers, and are authentic IWCs.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
Yes, the fakers are getting frighteningly good; an extract would be the best insurance here, I think.
I think your "suspicion radar" is working well, Tony!
Regards.
ross (at) baverstock (dot) me (dot) uk
If they are getting so good, what would be the problem to put a number on a place where it is to be expected? One good looking number would suffice, as you don't have to show more than one watch at a time.
Kind regards,
Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
Last edited: 23 October, 2011 - 13:31
The movement is authentic. The soft iron cage appears authentic. The dial and and hands also appear authentic, although I could not remove the dial to check if it is made of soft iron. The stainless steel case appeared legitimate but could be fabricated, or it could have been stolen from IWC in the 1960s before the case number was engraved.
I also considered that the watch could be stolen and the case number filed away to prevent identification, but I did not notice evidence of that.
There is a possibility this watch was actually put together outside of IWC with all IWC legitimate parts. If this is indeed the case this watch, nice as it is, is not a Ref 666AD Ingenieur, and is therefore worth only the value of each part.
The rule Caveat Emptor aplies
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
An explanation may be that criminals, clever as they may be, are essentially lazy, and are only willing to invest the minimum effort they think they can get away with for a quick gain. If they were willing to work hard for their money, they would have an honest job.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
Regards,
Roberto
Last edited: 11 January, 2013 - 11:07
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53