7 Discussions and CommentsMember since Nov. 14, 2010Utrecht,
Netherlands
Hello all!
I'm Remco from the Netherlands & just new to this forum. Which is logical since I just got, as a fifth-year wedding anniversary present from my wife, a vintage Ingenieur. Well, at least I'm hoping it is. Since I got it I started reading about the Ingenieur & all the variations.
I found out about the great article on frizzelwebb and actually saw one image of a dial which comes close to mine I think (in my amateur eyes at least...)
Mine has baton hands obviously, but especially the typography of the 3, 6, 9, 12 looks the same to me. Well then, I obviously also found out that my watch should have the case number in between the bottom lugs. And, most dissappointing, it doesn't. There's also no case number on the case back & I still have to go to a watchmaker to check the inside.
Here are a couple of images I uploaded of the watch:
I'm thinking of sending the watch to Schaffhausen to see what IWC's analysis is of this watch, if it is possible to get an extract of the archives and maybe they can also work on it a bit (there's one stain close to the 5 which is not so nice).
Here's the question: I spoke last week to a vintage watch shop. They advised me to send it directly, so not via an Dutch IWC importeur or shop. Reason for it was that they might try to repair it in the Netherlands and that it would never reach Schaffhausen.
On the other hand I'm quite reluctant to send such a gift by mail to Switzerland. Does anybody have any experiences on sending to Schaffhausen themselves? What's best?
Also any expert opinion on this model is welcome obviously!
1,908 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
That is the second Ref 666 Ingenieur without a case number between the lugs I see this month, with almost exactly that dial and hands, and in The Netherlands. The first one was discussed to exhaustion in a previous thread. I suggest you read it. IMHO, absent a case number, it.is not a genuine Ref 666 even if all parts are authentic IWC. Schaffhausen will have a last word, if they issue the Extract from the Ledger.
7 Discussions and CommentsMember since Nov. 14, 2010Utrecht,
Netherlands
Thank you for your quick reply. I guess your referring to the post 'very intriguing' started on the 29th of october. I will read it once more, thank you.
My watch being in the Netherlands is mere coincidence, my wife bought it two months ago from a German seller located in Singen, near the Swiss border. Via ebay, the seller having a solid feedback record selling quite some vintage watches from different brands over a couple of years.
In the meantime, do you have any suggestions on how I should send the watch to Schaffhausen? Is it best to send it yourself or send it via a Dutch dealer? And I read somewhere that you might get into trouble with customs. Do you have any experience with that?
1,908 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
rebr Wrote:My watch being in the Netherlands is mere coincidence, my wife bought it two months ago from a German seller located in Singen, near the Swiss border. Via ebay, the seller having a solid feedback record selling quite some vintage watches from different brands over a couple of years. In the meantime, do you have any suggestions on how I should send the watch to Schaffhausen? Is it best to send it yourself or send it via a Dutch dealer? And I read somewhere that you might get into trouble with customs. Do you have any experience with that? Thank you once more & best regards, Remco
The Ref 666 I refer to in my posting Very intriguing also originated in Germany. I strongly suspect, by your description it was sold by the same ebay seller. I do not have a definite opinion about these two Ingenieurs but my working theory is that they may have been put together with genuine IWC parts outside of, and without Shaffhausen's knowledge or consent. Note that this is only my opinion and that opinions on this matter may and will differ. I sent all my vintage Ingenieurs, Aquatimers, and Portugiesers, to Schaffhausen for authentication and/or overhaul via my AD and, thus far I have had no problems with customs. I assume IWC has a system in place allowing the smooth transit of watches through customs for repair. The process can be exasperatingly slow - a simple authentication can take over 2 months (I have a Ref 9386 Ingenieur for authentication since 16 September) and an overhaul takes 6 months, but it is worth the wait. I have no experience sending a watch directly to Schaffhausen but my instinct tells me that it is not a good idea, as this will be a sure way of having to deal with customs yourself as a private individual. Good luck.
7 Discussions and CommentsMember since Nov. 14, 2010Utrecht,
Netherlands
Thank you once more for your advice. I'll send it to Schaffhausen through a registered seller/dealer in the Netherlands then.
Once I have news from Schaffhausen I'll post it here again. Positive or negative in terms of authenticity, it should at least be helpfull to develop the communal knowledge contained within this forum.
I've been following this thread with some interest, and have a few comments that hopefully might be helpful:
--the "Ingenieur" on the dial looks a lot darker and bolder than the rest of the printing...I can't tell if it's the photo, an unusual printing or something added later
--what is the diameter of the watch in millimeters (without the crown). Based on the proportion to the strap it might be a little small; if it's 34 mm it's certainly not an Ingenieur
--can you get a dealer to take the back off? Is there a soft iron inner cover? What does the inside of the back say?
Based on answers to the second and third items, we might be able to save your watch a trip to Schaffhausen.
7 Discussions and CommentsMember since Nov. 14, 2010Utrecht,
Netherlands
Good evening Mr. Friedberg,
Thank you for your interest!
- Reg. the printing of the "Ingenieur" text. I'm obviously not an expert myself but a wellknown vintage watch shop in Amsterdam had a look at it closely last week & didn't think there was a difference between how the texts were printed onto the dial. Also this is just another opinion, yet already a more professional one then mine.
- The size of the watch is correct, I measured it myself and it is 36,5 mm.
- The suggestion to remove the back first before sending it to Switzerland is a good one. I'll go to a watchmaker this weekend and will also try to take a picture with the back off which I'll post again. (cause I don't really know where to look at personally).
2,626 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 20, 2007
Remco, the movement is certainly a Cal 85, and based on the Date Your IWC utility "The movement is a calibre 85, dating from the year 1950.
The fact you have a inner cover (soft iron) is promising - As MF asks, is there a case number on the inside of the outer Case Back? From the picture, it looks like no number is engraved.
This is getting curious! Gents, is it possibly a genuine Ref 666 with a replacement/rogue case back?
I'm Remco from the Netherlands & just new to this forum. Which is logical since I just got, as a fifth-year wedding anniversary present from my wife, a vintage Ingenieur. Well, at least I'm hoping it is. Since I got it I started reading about the Ingenieur & all the variations.
I found out about the great article on frizzelwebb and actually saw one image of a dial which comes close to mine I think (in my amateur eyes at least...)
http://www.frizzellweb.com/larry/inge/Inge-LS-852b.jpg
Mine has baton hands obviously, but especially the typography of the 3, 6, 9, 12 looks the same to me. Well then, I obviously also found out that my watch should have the case number in between the bottom lugs. And, most dissappointing, it doesn't. There's also no case number on the case back & I still have to go to a watchmaker to check the inside.
Here are a couple of images I uploaded of the watch:
I'm thinking of sending the watch to Schaffhausen to see what IWC's analysis is of this watch, if it is possible to get an extract of the archives and maybe they can also work on it a bit (there's one stain close to the 5 which is not so nice).
Here's the question: I spoke last week to a vintage watch shop. They advised me to send it directly, so not via an Dutch IWC importeur or shop. Reason for it was that they might try to repair it in the Netherlands and that it would never reach Schaffhausen.
On the other hand I'm quite reluctant to send such a gift by mail to Switzerland. Does anybody have any experiences on sending to Schaffhausen themselves? What's best?
Also any expert opinion on this model is welcome obviously!
Best regards,
Remco
IMHO, absent a case number, it.is not a genuine Ref 666 even if all parts are authentic IWC. Schaffhausen will have a last word, if they issue the Extract from the Ledger.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
My watch being in the Netherlands is mere coincidence, my wife bought it two months ago from a German seller located in Singen, near the Swiss border. Via ebay, the seller having a solid feedback record selling quite some vintage watches from different brands over a couple of years.
In the meantime, do you have any suggestions on how I should send the watch to Schaffhausen? Is it best to send it yourself or send it via a Dutch dealer? And I read somewhere that you might get into trouble with customs. Do you have any experience with that?
Thank you once more & best regards,
Remco
The Ref 666 I refer to in my posting Very intriguing also originated in Germany. I strongly suspect, by your description it was sold by the same ebay seller. I do not have a definite opinion about these two Ingenieurs but my working theory is that they may have been put together with genuine IWC parts outside of, and without Shaffhausen's knowledge or consent. Note that this is only my opinion and that opinions on this matter may and will differ.
I sent all my vintage Ingenieurs, Aquatimers, and Portugiesers, to Schaffhausen for authentication and/or overhaul via my AD and, thus far I have had no problems with customs. I assume IWC has a system in place allowing the smooth transit of watches through customs for repair. The process can be exasperatingly slow - a simple authentication can take over 2 months (I have a Ref 9386 Ingenieur for authentication since 16 September) and an overhaul takes 6 months, but it is worth the wait.
I have no experience sending a watch directly to Schaffhausen but my instinct tells me that it is not a good idea, as this will be a sure way of having to deal with customs yourself as a private individual.
Good luck.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05
Once I have news from Schaffhausen I'll post it here again. Positive or negative in terms of authenticity, it should at least be helpfull to develop the communal knowledge contained within this forum.
Best regards,
Remco
--the "Ingenieur" on the dial looks a lot darker and bolder than the rest of the printing...I can't tell if it's the photo, an unusual printing or something added later
--what is the diameter of the watch in millimeters (without the crown). Based on the proportion to the strap it might be a little small; if it's 34 mm it's certainly not an Ingenieur
--can you get a dealer to take the back off? Is there a soft iron inner cover? What does the inside of the back say?
Based on answers to the second and third items, we might be able to save your watch a trip to Schaffhausen.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
Thank you for your interest!
- Reg. the printing of the "Ingenieur" text. I'm obviously not an expert myself but a wellknown vintage watch shop in Amsterdam had a look at it closely last week & didn't think there was a difference between how the texts were printed onto the dial. Also this is just another opinion, yet already a more professional one then mine.
- The size of the watch is correct, I measured it myself and it is 36,5 mm.
- The suggestion to remove the back first before sending it to Switzerland is a good one. I'll go to a watchmaker this weekend and will also try to take a picture with the back off which I'll post again. (cause I don't really know where to look at personally).
Best regards,
Remco
Please free free to mail me at my private address below to discuss. Groeten,
Bob
b.bunnik <u>at</u> zonnet.nl
Last edited: 27 August, 2011 - 21:53
So, a next step in analysing this watch: hereby three more pictures, this time of the inside as promised. A watchmaker just opened it up for me.
There is no number inside or outside the caseback as you can see. The number on one of the pictures inside the watch is: 1216377.
Best regards,
Remco
The fact you have a inner cover (soft iron) is promising - As MF asks, is there a case number on the inside of the outer Case Back? From the picture, it looks like no number is engraved.
This is getting curious! Gents, is it possibly a genuine Ref 666 with a replacement/rogue case back?
Best regards
Mark
Last edited: 16 April, 2013 - 00:36