Hi there, I am a new comer to the IWC world, so I would really appreciate some clarifications in simple words from the experts who are discussing here. well, I am a recent owner of the portuguese chronograph (ref 3714). I purchased it recently and in parallel started just for fun reading into the wonderful IWC 2010/2011 annual in order to get more info about history, manufacturing, present models, etc. Then I came across the table that shows and discusses the IWC own developed calibres and surprisingly did not find there the 79350 of ref 3714. On the net I read that for this model, the company uses actually a movement that is actually produced by mass production (ETA Valjoux 7750). Here I start to be a puzzled...can it be? can someone explain why a watch which costs in Switzerland nearly 17'000 Swiss francs is not actually equipped with a top IWC movement like the most of the other models? by the way, according the to table in the IWC annual, also their flagship, the grand complication is probably not based on an IWC calibre? any clarifications with this issue will be highly appreciated. regards, simius
4 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 18, 2011RUFFEY-LES-ECHIREY,
France
Salut Simius, Tu as raison, ta portugaise chronograph automatic possède un calibre basé sur un Valjoux 7750.Mais il a été profondément remanié et amélioré par les ingénieurs d'IWC; Si le 7750 n'existait pas, il n'y aurait pas beaucoup de chronographs accessibles financièrement sur le marché; D'ailleurs de nombreuses marques prestigieuses l'utilisent : Breitling, Oméga, Porsche Désign, Panerai,etc...Ce mouvement est fiable et performant, même si les puristes le dédaignent parceque ce n'est pas un calibre de manufacture.En fait, même le mouvement de la Portugaise Vintage (Calibre 98295) est basé sur un mouvement Unitas...et c'est sur cette base que sont développées certaines grandes complications!!!Une fois retravaillé par les experts d'IWC,saches que le mouvement final n'a plus rien à voir avec le calibre de base!Salut.TEX
3 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 18, 2011
The 3714 has retained it's value over the years because it is an excellent watch--the movement issue that you mention hasn't kept people from enjoying the watch which, incidentally, keeps excellent time.
3 Discussions and CommentsMember since June 30, 2004Victoria,
Australia
Hi Simius,
Your question is a very interesting and is best answered face to face. However, we do not have the luxury of doing that. All I can say in a politically correct manner as part of this forum, is that the calibre you are referring to, has been produced by ETA according to IWC's strict standards. If IWC will test the movement and ensure that it is exactly the same as if it was made in the factory at Schaffhausen. The reason for doing so is basically to develop a collection of 'entry-level' watches at a reasonable price for budding watch lovers out there. By 'outsourcing' the production of some of their 'entry-level' watches, IWC could then focus their resources into developing more in-house movements and innovations for their 'mid - high' level watches. This explanation is of course just the tip of the iceberg....
Hi, thanks a lot for your feedback..however, what still puzzles me in this explanation is that the movement of the grand complication (also in the portuguese version), the so-called # Calibre 79091 was at its very beginning also valjoux 7750 (power reserve 44hrs, for example, common to all 7750-based calibres), which of course has been much extensively modified (bit more than 79350..)...isn't it? best.. simius
Dr Perpetual Wrote:Hi Simius,
Your question is a very interesting and is best answered face to face. However, we do not have the luxury of doing that. All I can say in a politically correct manner as part of this forum, is that the calibre you are referring to, has been produced by ETA according to IWC's strict standards. If IWC will test the movement and ensure that it is exactly the same as if it was made in the factory at Schaffhausen. The reason for doing so is basically to develop a collection of 'entry-level' watches at a reasonable price for budding watch lovers out there. By 'outsourcing' the production of some of their 'entry-level' watches, IWC could then focus their resources into developing more in-house movements and innovations for their 'mid - high' level watches. This explanation is of course just the tip of the iceberg....
12 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 25, 2010
Dear Simius,
If you google and/or search the forum on IWC and ETA 7750 you will find many interesting infmn. In short ETA makes this caliber in several grades. IWC buys the highest grade (chronometer grade which basically means it will pass COSC certification), not assembled but in parts, they then change maybe half of the components to better ones, they fine tune and improve the remaining components, then assemble and test, fine tune again etc. So they more or less makes this movement their own. Compare and BMW M to an ordinary BMW or an AMG to an ordinary Mercedez. Besides the Valjoux 7750 is a very robust and proven movement so it's a good basis. Many quality watch makes like Omega, Breitling, Panerai, etc apart from IWC use this movement in some of their watches. However as ETA are phasing out their supply to other watchmakers outside the Swatch group, most watchmakers was forced to develop more in-house movements. I guess this means that even entry models will become more expensive from now on.
I am actually a bit more surprised for lack of explanation for my initial post from some IWC official... what is actually the reason that 7314 for its price is not based on a 100% in-house made engine? Isn't it justified to see IWC in the category of Audemars Piguet or Patek Phillipe? are the chronographs from these manufacturers also based on 7750? Finally, could anyone elaborate if Calibre 79091 is also actually indeed based on Valjoux 7750? Thanks, Simius
4 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 18, 2011RUFFEY-LES-ECHIREY,
France
hi simius, my turn to try english writing...iwc has developped a new chrono.calibre for the potuguaise yachtclub, but the 7314 is still used for the classical portugaise chrono.This is the most cheap portugaise anyone can buy....the price of dream.Although, I have a portofino chrono with the 79320 calibre also issued from 7750, but the portofino costs half less than the portugaise!!Don't worry, IWC knows how to produce excellent watches since 140 years,and your calibre is a very good one.
3 Discussions and CommentsMember since June 30, 2004Victoria,
Australia
Hi Simius,
The short answer to your question is yes. Bear in mind that IWC only uses the 7750 as a blueprint guide. The finished product however, due to heavy modifications, looks nothing like the blueprint.
I am a new comer to the IWC world, so I would really appreciate some clarifications in simple words from the experts who are discussing here.
well, I am a recent owner of the portuguese chronograph (ref 3714). I purchased it recently and in parallel started just for fun reading into the wonderful IWC 2010/2011 annual in order to get more info about history, manufacturing, present models, etc. Then I came across the table that shows and discusses the IWC own developed calibres and surprisingly did not find there the 79350 of ref 3714. On the net I read that for this model, the company uses actually a movement that is actually produced by mass production (ETA Valjoux 7750). Here I start to be a puzzled...can it be? can someone explain why a watch which costs in Switzerland nearly 17'000 Swiss francs is not actually equipped with a top IWC movement like the most of the other models? by the way, according the to table in the IWC annual, also their flagship, the grand complication is probably not based on an IWC calibre? any clarifications with this issue will be highly appreciated.
regards,
simius
Tu as raison, ta portugaise chronograph automatic possède un calibre basé sur un Valjoux 7750.Mais il a été profondément remanié et amélioré par les ingénieurs d'IWC; Si le 7750 n'existait pas, il n'y aurait pas beaucoup de chronographs accessibles financièrement sur le marché; D'ailleurs de nombreuses marques prestigieuses l'utilisent : Breitling, Oméga, Porsche Désign, Panerai,etc...Ce mouvement est fiable et performant, même si les puristes le dédaignent parceque ce n'est pas un calibre de manufacture.En fait, même le mouvement de la Portugaise Vintage (Calibre 98295) est basé sur un mouvement Unitas...et c'est sur cette base que sont développées certaines grandes complications!!!Une fois retravaillé par les experts d'IWC,saches que le mouvement final n'a plus rien à voir avec le calibre de base!Salut.TEX
Your question is a very interesting and is best answered face to face. However, we do not have the luxury of doing that. All I can say in a politically correct manner as part of this forum, is that the calibre you are referring to, has been produced by ETA according to IWC's strict standards. If IWC will test the movement and ensure that it is exactly the same as if it was made in the factory at Schaffhausen. The reason for doing so is basically to develop a collection of 'entry-level' watches at a reasonable price for budding watch lovers out there. By 'outsourcing' the production of some of their 'entry-level' watches, IWC could then focus their resources into developing more in-house movements and innovations for their 'mid - high' level watches. This explanation is of course just the tip of the iceberg....
thanks a lot for your feedback..however, what still puzzles me in this explanation is that the movement of the grand complication (also in the portuguese version), the so-called # Calibre 79091 was at its very beginning also valjoux 7750 (power reserve 44hrs, for example, common to all 7750-based calibres), which of course has been much extensively modified (bit more than 79350..)...isn't it?
best..
simius
thanks you very much for your explanations (no problem...can't write very well in french, but I understood)..
simius
If you google and/or search the forum on IWC and ETA 7750 you will find many interesting infmn. In short ETA makes this caliber in several grades. IWC buys the highest grade (chronometer grade which basically means it will pass COSC certification), not assembled but in parts, they then change maybe half of the components to better ones, they fine tune and improve the remaining components, then assemble and test, fine tune again etc. So they more or less makes this movement their own. Compare and BMW M to an ordinary BMW or an AMG to an ordinary Mercedez.
Besides the Valjoux 7750 is a very robust and proven movement so it's a good basis. Many quality watch makes like Omega, Breitling, Panerai, etc apart from IWC use this movement in some of their watches. However as ETA are phasing out their supply to other watchmakers outside the Swatch group, most watchmakers was forced to develop more in-house movements. I guess this means that even entry models will become more expensive from now on.
Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis
Last edited: 19 May, 2011 - 11:05
what is actually the reason that 7314 for its price is not based on a 100% in-house made engine?
Isn't it justified to see IWC in the category of Audemars Piguet or Patek Phillipe? are the chronographs from these manufacturers also based on 7750?
Finally, could anyone elaborate if Calibre 79091 is also actually indeed based on Valjoux 7750?
Thanks,
Simius
my turn to try english writing...iwc has developped a new chrono.calibre for the potuguaise yachtclub, but the 7314 is still used for the classical portugaise chrono.This is the most cheap portugaise anyone can buy....the price of dream.Although, I have a portofino chrono with the 79320 calibre also issued from 7750, but the portofino costs half less than the portugaise!!Don't worry, IWC knows how to produce excellent watches since 140 years,and your calibre is a very good one.
The short answer to your question is yes. Bear in mind that IWC only uses the 7750 as a blueprint guide. The finished product however, due to heavy modifications, looks nothing like the blueprint.