IWC Schaffhausen

Hi all, back on the vintage IWC hunt in earnest!

Have found what looks like a lovely Rose gold 89 cal piece on the net that I am really interested in buying. I asked the Seller a few questions (including whether it had a refinished dial- seems to have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum!), and he said he thinks it may have.

So my question is- is it sacrilege to buy an IWC with a refinished dial? What does it really mean? And if so, how can you ever be sure a vintage piece hasn't got one?

Thanks so much all,

My friend, if the guy "thinks it may have been" refinished, rest assured it absolutely, positively has been refinished.

Personally, I pass over any watch with a refinished dial. I'd prefer one in scuffed up form rather than one that's been repainted. It's hard to explain, but it's sort of like the refinisher has turned the watch into a dime store plastic quartz watch. Refinishing kills the very soul of a living, breathing thing. It's terrible.

I know my stance is on the far right in this matter, but if you're going to spend as much as I bet you're going to spend on a vintage IWC, you want her to be just as the manufacturer originally intended. And if she's picked up some character during her sojourn on this earth, that's okay too.

Best always,

Titanos

The dial on a vintage IWC must show the age, and an even patina of ageing is actually very desirable.
There are, however, cases when the watch has not been properly cared for through her life, and the dial has actually been seriously damaged. In this case it is acceptable to have the dial replaced, or repainted, as long as it done at Schaffhausen. A watch with a restored, repainted or refinished dial outside of IWC is no longer an IWC, imo.
The exception may be IWC watches with cloisonné dials, since IWC does not have the capability to repair them.

clepsydra
ad fontes...

Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05

Here's a partial repost of mine from the old IWC Forum which addresses similar concerns:

Posted by Jack Freedman on 04.07.01 at 01:03:41

For your information, there are so-called independent dial refinishers who, like sloppy amateur watchmakers, have no feel for refinishing a dial in a classy, neat and professional manner.

I have seen IWC dials redone with improper type and logo, misspelled name and overall poor background. Dial refinishing is “arts & crafts” all in one and it takes skill and experience to achieve near perfect results.

Furthermore, if the refinisher does not have the correct die with the original IWC imprint then the end result will be a sore to the eye.

In all honesty, the best dial “refinish” done in the U.S. does not compare to the true dial “restoration” provided by the IWC factory in Schaffhausen.

You simply cannot compare apples and oranges, or “refinishing” vs. “restoring” with the latter ending up almost flawless. The difference between the two, though, is not only the price but the time with dial restoration taking up to six months.

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city85 Wrote:Hi all, back on the vintage IWC hunt in earnest!

Have found what looks like a lovely Rose gold 89 cal piece on the net that I am really interested in buying. I asked the Seller a few questions (including whether it had a refinished dial- seems to have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum!), and he said he thinks it may have.

So my question is- is it sacrilege to buy an IWC with a refinished dial? What does it really mean? And if so, how can you ever be sure a vintage piece hasn't got one?

Thanks so much all,

Hi City85,

being totally of agreement with the forumers preceded me I can only add I would make a little difference between restamped dials. Some of them particularly old and well done may be of some interest (it was a common attitude to have the dial repainted until a few decades ago), although their presence significantly lower the interest of a collector - imo.

Your last question is absolutely interesting and relevant to any vintage collector. Unfortunaltely I don't have the answer except you (we) may need time to study a lot about watches, see a lot of dials, get to know the different techniques adopted to produce dials etc. in short, one of the hardest and most interesting part of being a vintage watch passionate.

It's part of the fun but it's a price to pay also :)

Regards,

Roberto

Last edited: 11 January, 2013 - 11:07

clepsydra Wrote:The dial on a vintage IWC must show the age, and an even patina of ageing is actually very desirable.
There are, however, cases when the watch has not been properly cared for through her life, and the dial has actually been seriously damaged. In this case it is acceptable to have the dial replaced, or repainted, as long as it done at Schaffhausen. A watch with a restored, repainted or refinished dial outside of IWC is no longer an IWC, imo.
The exception may be IWC watches with cloisonné dials, since IWC does not have the capability to repair them.

Sorry but to my knowledge IWC do not retore dials in house. They may have a NOS replacement dials depending on the model, otherwise they send it "outside" to be done ?
I do agree that the dial should remain original if possible. Not sure if a repaint adds value or not. I suppose it depends on the condition of the original one.

Reggards

Ivan
iwcforme
iwcforme@aol.com

Last edited: 11 December, 2012 - 13:27

Ivan Melbourne Wrote in reply to:

clepsydra Wrote:The dial on a vintage IWC must show the age, and an even patina of ageing is actually very desirable.
There are, however, cases when the watch has not been properly cared for through her life, and the dial has actually been seriously damaged. In this case it is acceptable to have the dial replaced, or repainted, as long as it done at Schaffhausen. A watch with a restored, repainted or refinished dial outside of IWC is no longer an IWC, imo.
The exception may be IWC watches with cloisonné dials, since IWC does not have the capability to repair them.

Sorry but to my knowledge IWC do not retore dials in house. They may have a NOS replacement dials depending on the model, otherwise they send it "outside" to be done ?
I do agree that the dial should remain original if possible. Not sure if a repaint adds value or not. I suppose it depends on the condition of the original one.

Reggards

There are occasions where a redial is done, either due to owners wishes, to repair damage, or to mask / hide flaws. Similar to the collector car hobby, a repaint on a classic Ferarri or high end automobile can, and usually does lower desirability and value. But in this brave new world of too much new money and little care for some details of watches, cars, or whatever is the desire of the owner, almost anything can and does happen. IMO, find the best condition (original) you can, and often that means awaiting or seeking out just the right piece. After all, that is half the fun of it.
Cash

Last edited: 4 February, 2011 - 21:51

Ivan Melbourne Wrote in reply to:

clepsydra Wrote:The dial on a vintage IWC must show the age, and an even patina of ageing is actually very desirable.
There are, however, cases when the watch has not been properly cared for through her life, and the dial has actually been seriously damaged. In this case it is acceptable to have the dial replaced, or repainted, as long as it done at Schaffhausen. A watch with a restored, repainted or refinished dial outside of IWC is no longer an IWC, imo.
The exception may be IWC watches with cloisonné dials, since IWC does not have the capability to repair them.

Sorry but to my knowledge IWC do not retore dials in house. They may have a NOS replacement dials depending on the model, otherwise they send it "outside" to be done ?
I do agree that the dial should remain original if possible. Not sure if a repaint adds value or not. I suppose it depends on the condition of the original one.

Reggards

Hi Ivan,
To the best of my knowledge, IWC does not make dials either, and we all accept them as legitimate IWC.
Some degree of accuracy is always lost in the interest of brevity, and this is a case in point. By made by IWC, or by made in Schaffhausen I mean made, not only at the IWC factory in Schaffhausen or at the other location which name I can't recall at the moment, but also by an IWC approved contractor.
I do hope I do not have to have my future posts reviewed by my lawyer so no other interpretation can be given to my words, other than the intended one. :)

clepsydra
ad fontes...

Last edited: 30 October, 2011 - 22:05

clepsydra Wrote in reply to:

Ivan Melbourne Wrote in reply to:

clepsydra Wrote:The dial on a vintage IWC must show the age, and an even patina of ageing is actually very desirable.
There are, however, cases when the watch has not been properly cared for through her life, and the dial has actually been seriously damaged. In this case it is acceptable to have the dial replaced, or repainted, as long as it done at Schaffhausen. A watch with a restored, repainted or refinished dial outside of IWC is no longer an IWC, imo.
The exception may be IWC watches with cloisonné dials, since IWC does not have the capability to repair them.

Sorry but to my knowledge IWC do not retore dials in house. They may have a NOS replacement dials depending on the model, otherwise they send it "outside" to be done ?
I do agree that the dial should remain original if possible. Not sure if a repaint adds value or not. I suppose it depends on the condition of the original one.

Reggards

Hi Ivan,
To the best of my knowledge, IWC does not make dials either, and we all accept them as legitimate IWC.
Some degree of accuracy is always lost in the interest of brevity, and this is a case in point. By made by IWC, or by made in Schaffhausen I mean made, not only at the IWC factory in Schaffhausen or at the other location which name I can't recall at the moment, but also by an IWC approved contractor.
I do hope I do not have to have my future posts reviewed by my lawyer so no other interpretation can be given to my words, other than the intended one. :)

A pity your last statement did not have (LOL) after it else it may be thought you were a bit touchy!!!!!!!!(LOL)
My response was intended to be of clarification / help to our newer members who perhaps were not aware dials were produced outside of IWC /Schaffhausen , rather than to be critical of your "brevity" to which you seem to have taken exception. Ah well , such is life!!!!!!

Regards
Ivan
iwcforme

Ivan
iwcforme
iwcforme@aol.com

Last edited: 11 December, 2012 - 13:27

Hi all,

Have been reading all of your very helpful comments with great interest, thank you so much. It's nice to know someone is out there with support and advice when you're just starting out!

Titanos- I completely understand what you mean about losing the soul. Very well explained! And Roberto, you are absolutely right, the more dials I look at, the more I feel I know! Having started out as a complete novice a month ago, I already feel much more confident (muchly thanks to this forum!)

I will continue my search - no doubt you will hear from me again with a new question, but your continued support is much appreciated!

All the best,