IWC Schaffhausen

Hi all,

I've posted recently on this forum to get appreciation on a Cal 73 marriage.
I received my answers showing how bad was my choice.

I'd like to turn it different now.

Here is the equation:
- I'd like to wear quite frequently an old but high-grade movement (so I expect great time keeping and reliability)
- Budget: I do not have the budget to buy a full original Cal 98 or Portuguese Jubilee (however I would love to.. :) ); I am ready to put 1k€, 1.5k€
- I'd like to have a nice IWC Dial whatever it is not an ooooold one, with nice hands (Portuguese like)
- I'd like to have a back glass
- Service: I have a very good watch dealer near my place with reasonable rates so this should not be an issue... hopefully

I started to look for Cal74, then Cal 98, because of the size that I like, and the old Portuguese-like movement.

Do you think this is an achievable challenge?
Any tips or hints are welcome !

Thanks a lot for your help,
Christophe.

...and I thought you were asking about how to find a wife who would tolerate your watch buying ;)

On what you're really looking for, some people would say a "good marriage" is a contradiction or oxymoron. But I would suggest that at least you look for a watch with the small seconds at 6 o'clock. With the exception of one modern model, no IWC watch had its seconds indication at 9. When you see one at 9, it cries marriage and also a non-IWC dial.

Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com

Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53

Michael Friedberg Wrote:...and I thought you were asking about how to find a wife who would tolerate your watch buying ;)

On what you're really looking for, some people would say a "good marriage" is a contradiction or oxymoron. But I would suggest that at least you look for a watch with the small seconds at 6 o'clock. With the exception of one modern model, no IWC watch had its seconds indication at 9. When you see one at 9, it cries marriage and also a non-IWC dial.

Thanks Michael for your feedback.
I found a good wife; tolerance against compulsive watch buying is an interesting challenge indeed, and I think I might not be the only one here... ;)

I agree with your point. I jumped on a first watch with sec at 9, but felt rapidely this bad feeling...

Now I'd like to have your opinion on this new opportunity.
Price is 1.1k€.
Here is the description from the seller and 2 photos:
"my c74 watch. The case is steel, swiss made, 47 mm without crown, sapphire glass on front and back !! the movement signed c.74 with Iwc seal, working well, keeps the time accurately. ( 2-3 second/day !!!) The dial is original not repainted!!, gold colour, two tone with gold numbers, and like new, without any damage or scratch, the hands is also original blued steel, the watch is in very nice and perfect condition, like new."



Thanks ! :)

Xophe,

Step away from the e-auction website!

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that is another fake IWC. I recommend you continue to hang around this forum and learn as much as you can about IWC watches before you attempt to buy vintage--this seems like a safe bet. Best of luck!

hgb4529 Wrote:Xophe,
I'm going out on a limb here and saying that is another fake IWC.

Thanks for your feedback first.

This lead does not come from eAuction, but from Chrono24 (maybe not better then ;) )... I was first talking about a very expensive Cal98 with the seller, who proposed me this "cheaper" Cal74. I'm sure that the more I'll stay around this forum, the more knowledgable I will be. But could you give me some good questions/tips to identify a fake as per you said?

Thanks.

xophe Wrote in reply to:

Now I'd like to have your opinion on this new opportunity.
Price is 1.1k€.
Here is the description from the seller and 2 photos:
"my c74 watch. The case is steel, swiss made, 47 mm without crown, sapphire glass on front and back !! the movement signed c.74 with Iwc seal, working well, keeps the time accurately. ( 2-3 second/day !!!) The dial is original not repainted!!, gold colour, two tone with gold numbers, and like new, without any damage or scratch, the hands is also original blued steel, the watch is in very nice and perfect condition, like new."

Once again you are looking at either a fake or at best a recased pocket watch. One glaring tipoff is the 47mm diameter. Vintage IWC wristwatches were nowhere close to 47mm - usually 35mm +/- a couple mm. The sellers description that the case is "swiss made" but not claiming "original" is a true statement, but not entirely forthcoming.

Quite honestly. these "marriages" are not desirable to collectors or most people who love IWC. For your budget you could get a beautiful Cal 89 or Cal 83 or Cal 88, and with careful shopping, maybe even in gold rather than SS. Here are a couple of photos of what these can look like:





and if you want to save a bit more money, you might be able to find a SS 3531 (in gold on the left of this photo)

Dick L.

whichwatch at roadrunner dot com

Indeed, the dial is original; that's an improvement over the last one. But the case is like a pilot's watch, and that does defeat some of the styling. It also was just taken from another, inexpensive watch that used a Unitas movement --would you want all that incorrect engraving on your watch?

Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com

Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53

No guys that is not what he is looking for. Correct me if I am wrong Xophe but you like a wristwatch that is in the 44mm-47mm range. You can't afford a modern Portuguese (I understand, neither can I) so you are looking to a recased IWC pocket watch?

There are allot of caseless movements out there now seeing as the price gold is so high. Worn cases are getting cannibalized for their gold content, but I would warn you allot of the movements that have met this end are usually badly worn from years of use and/or neglect and are not worth the money they are asking for them. Most of the ones I've seen coming out of Poland and the Ukraine are in dodgy condition with bad redials. Also the Soviets made allot of poor copies of Swiss movements that, to the untrained eye, can look like a much better Swiss made watches. Some more unscrupulous eastern watchmakers even fake Swiss makers marks to dupe novice watch collectors into buying these lower grade Soviet watches. If you want to do a marriage I would suggest you have a good relationship with a watchmaker that you trust, that is project friendly, find your own movement, and then hunt down a conversion case on Feebay or through some of the other watchforums that collectors use. I have seen nice stainless conversion cases with crowns on Feebay that have no markings on them unlike the one in your pic. That is one of the cases the Chinese fakers use to fake the B-Uhr. No one wants to wear a fake really and I personally would never buy those cases. There are alternatives out there if you shop around that are usually reasonably priced.

As for recognizing a fake movement, all I can say is research, research, research. I don't want to give a list of things to look for because that is what fakers use to make more accurate fakes. Pour over the pics of movements in books about IWC and in forums like this .(fakers are too lazy to do that) You will develop an eye for it, then one day you will see an "IWC" for sale and you will be saying to yourself "how can they get away with listing that fake as a real IWC?" Then hopefully you will warn someone about it!

Even though I like a good project watch, ultimately I agree with Whichwatch.

Quote:
"Quite honestly. these "marriages" are not desirable to collectors or most people who love IWC. For your budget you could get a beautiful Cal 89 or Cal 83 or Cal 88, and with careful shopping, maybe even in gold rather than SS."

He is SO right! There are some stunning vintage IWC's out there that will long outlive the large wristwatch fad and ultimately be more wearable in the long run. The watches Whichwatch posted are great. All of those watches are pure class that will never go out of style! Not to mention they are all in great condition! Very nice thanks for the pics!

At the same time I also believe it is honorable to save a great pocket watch movement(how's that for fencepost sitting?! LOL) and what better way to do it then to put it in a nice display back wristwatch case(if the original case is missing). Just know that the value will always be much less then a true IWC timed and cased movement. Though when it comes right down to it, when you look down at your wrist you have to like what you see, and only you can decide that!

Cheers!

WHICHWATCH:
Thanks a lot for your wonderful photos.
The thing is that I am not in the mood for less than 40mm diameters.
As I want to wear my wristwatch and not keep it in a safe, this excludes Cal 89, 83 or 88.
Still the 3531looks great, and I could make an exception for it.
The only model that I would like to own is the Steel & White dial with gold markers and hands.
But again, after a quick search from Google, it appears to me that this model will come up over my budget...

MICHAEL:
Thanks for your encouragement. Hopefully next time will be the good time ! :)
Honnestly, I was having a bad feeling whatever I liked the dial, the shape and the back saphire glass... then looking at your post made it obvious:
mixing Pilot style with Portuguese-style was the reason why... and this is the main reason for a no-go then.
The incorrect engraving on the back can be wiped-off, and it should ! :)

WAINAIR:
You're absolutely right describing my will.
I have started to follow-up your advice, thanks to another great guy of this forum (Thanks Roberto ! ;) ).
Indeed, I have contacted a watch maker in the US, doing great stuff from original movements.
But price comes with this good work... :p
Nevertheless, I would be very interested by your list of things to look at to identify fakes. Please send it to me by email.

I am here as a newbee... and I hope being able to help someone someday facing a fake movement or a bad marriage. So again (I repeat myself), I really appreciate you support here.
I have no pb with people wearing fakes as soon as they choose to do it. I just hate the idea of buying something crap when I go for a real thing with a consequent price.

As of today, and following some advices, unless I find in the following weeks a nice marriage (I can easily live without having a true vintage IWC ;) ), I will:
- save my money for a 5001 (hopefully not in 10 years-time)
- get shortly to a nice Pilot watch (ie Archimede Pilot XL Hand Wound with Eta 6498 TOP, or STEINHART "Nav.B-Uhr vintage TITAN")

Still do not hesitate to send me an email is you see something that could fit my "vintage Portuguese" desire.. :D

Kind regards to all of you !
Christophe.