11 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 7, 2010
In Terry Russel's TZ article on the Jubilee ("Feliz Aniversário Do Jubilee!") there's a picture about mid-page (Plate 5) of various dials on the old Portuguese. I'm interested in the one on the left, a white dial with 12,3, 9 arabic numerals and a chapter ring.
If anyone has a sharper reference picture of this dial, or can point me at a published version, I would be very grateful!
In 10 years of moderating here, I must have seen 50 original Portuguese --almost 10% of the total production --but never that exact dial. One Zurich dealer told me he had one once.
There are a perhaps a dozen Portuguese dials shown in the archived posts. You should use the magnifying glass on the upper left to search.
87 Discussions and CommentsMember since Feb. 13, 2007
Michael Friedberg Wrote:In 10 years of moderating here, I must have seen 50 original Portuguese --almost 10% of the total production --but never that exact dial. One Zurich dealer told me he had one once.
There are a perhaps a dozen Portuguese dials shown in the archived posts. You should use the magnifying glass on the upper left to search.
There was one identical for sale on a large watch-sell-site. It was located in Hungary, cal 74... however I think it was a marriage. I will try to dig up some picture.
11 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 7, 2010
Hi Martijn ... I'm pretty sure that that "Hungarian" ref 325, cal 74 is the real thing. It actually started out in the USA.
It has an IWC case, stainless, 42mm. The crown and seconds hand appear to have been lost to time, but the hands, although not the typical leaf ("feuilles de sauge") are IWC design and could well be original. In the IWC catalog those hands are #34, rather than the typical ref 325 #33.
Martijn S Wrote:The seller seems to have another one.... quite similar dial.
Maybe Michael can tell us a little more.
When that watch was auctioned, several people contacted me since I have a list of known Portuguese wristwatches. Unfortunately, the serial number of the case was not on the list I received from IWC. That doesn't mean it's not authentic --after all, two new ones were discovered due to this forum about five years ago-- but it does cast a doubt.
11 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 7, 2010
Well, it is an interesting watch ... the questions seem to be: (1) The dial and hands are less seen designs for a ref.325, at least that I am familiar with. If not for Russell's picture I would have said "never seen" instead of less seen. I would like to track down his picture to learn its source. (2) The "DateMyIWC" web applet returns a span of 18 years between movement and case. However, the story of the ref.325 includes "inventorying" and slow sales. Hmmm...
I've done some sleuthing ... The watch first surfaced in a small auction/estate sale in New York. Not a major house, just a low-level auctioneer. It was bought for $700 (!) by a dealer in the condition we see it now. He sold it to the friend of the eBay seller where we first saw it ... described as "Rare Huge 42mm Early IWC ..." in January. I have a standing "saved search" for that seller as he finds an interesting watch now and then in the East coast estate sales. For example, he had a ref 666A Ingenieur last year starting at $0.99. :-) These facts suggest that it is less likely to be a marriage concocted to raise the value of otherwise uninteresting bits. It never looked better than it does now, and never was sold for more.
I have it in hand now - excitment! The dial is unquestionably (to my eye) a lovely mid-40's vintage IWC dial. It's spectacular, even in its beat-up condition. I own a mint cal.88 with a serial number within 1000 of the 42mm case and the dials have the same metallic tone to the chapter rings -- sort of a butterfly wing effect where the color changes from silver-white to toned with the incident angle of the light. It's "wow"!
(I wonder whether Schaffhausen are still able to restore dials with this effect?)
Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic that it's yet another "discovered" 325.
Your question - "If not for Russell's picture I would have said "never seen" instead of less seen. I would like to track down his picture to learn its source." Is easily answered - it was a composite image of four that put I together in a post to this Forum. The image you are interested in has an IWC source:
If anyone has a sharper reference picture of this dial, or can point me at a published version, I would be very grateful!
http://www.timezone.com/img/articles/comarticles632086700509843750/PortGroup.jpg
<br /><img src="http://www.timezone.com/img/articles/comarticles632086700509843750/PortGroup.jpg" alt="image" /><br />
Last edited: 8 March, 2011 - 01:29
(Hoping that I cracked the code on inline images.)
There are a perhaps a dozen Portuguese dials shown in the archived posts. You should use the magnifying glass on the upper left to search.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
There was one identical for sale on a large watch-sell-site. It was located in Hungary, cal 74... however I think it was a marriage. I will try to dig up some picture.
Gr, Martijn
Last edited: 31 January, 2012 - 17:08
It has an IWC case, stainless, 42mm. The crown and seconds hand appear to have been lost to time, but the hands, although not the typical leaf ("feuilles de sauge") are IWC design and could well be original. In the IWC catalog those hands are #34, rather than the typical ref 325 #33.
Click here for the link to the IWC catalog archive page.
Anyway, I'm hopeful that it's real :-) It will be going to Schaffhausen for authentication and likely for restoration.
Here's a picture:
Maybe Michael can tell us a little more.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Last edited: 31 January, 2012 - 17:08
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Last edited: 31 January, 2012 - 17:08
When that watch was auctioned, several people contacted me since I have a list of known Portuguese wristwatches. Unfortunately, the serial number of the case was not on the list I received from IWC. That doesn't mean it's not authentic --after all, two new ones were discovered due to this forum about five years ago-- but it does cast a doubt.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 5 April, 2012 - 19:53
I've done some sleuthing ... The watch first surfaced in a small auction/estate sale in New York. Not a major house, just a low-level auctioneer. It was bought for $700 (!) by a dealer in the condition we see it now. He sold it to the friend of the eBay seller where we first saw it ... described as "Rare Huge 42mm Early IWC ..." in January. I have a standing "saved search" for that seller as he finds an interesting watch now and then in the East coast estate sales. For example, he had a ref 666A Ingenieur last year starting at $0.99. :-) These facts suggest that it is less likely to be a marriage concocted to raise the value of otherwise uninteresting bits. It never looked better than it does now, and never was sold for more.
I have it in hand now - excitment! The dial is unquestionably (to my eye) a lovely mid-40's vintage IWC dial. It's spectacular, even in its beat-up condition. I own a mint cal.88 with a serial number within 1000 of the 42mm case and the dials have the same metallic tone to the chapter rings -- sort of a butterfly wing effect where the color changes from silver-white to toned with the incident angle of the light. It's "wow"!
(I wonder whether Schaffhausen are still able to restore dials with this effect?)
Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic that it's yet another "discovered" 325.
Stacked Portuguese?
The glowing indices are very hard to capture ...
A trio of hand wound watches ...
Your question - "If not for Russell's picture I would have said "never seen" instead of less seen. I would like to track down his picture to learn its source." Is easily answered - it was a composite image of four that put I together in a post to this Forum. The image you are interested in has an IWC source:
Images from Past Catalogues
So IWC either has the watch or has seen the watch and my guess is the former.
Cheers from the cellar
cellar@gregsteer.net
Last edited: 4 January, 2013 - 22:35
I really appreciate your site and your compilation of material, and the research you've done. I go there often for information and answers!
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Ez