1,931 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
...sold recently at a popular auction site? It is an obvious redial. The original dials of the Mark 11s from the first BOAC acquisition had the dial/hands of the original 1948 Mark 11s. That is not a problem since tools watches have a task, and will be modified as necessary to accomplish it.
What is very wrong is the "broad arrow" which should be exclusive to the military watches of the armed forces of the Commonwealth. BOAC, although state owned, was a civilian airline.
It is, however, very interesting to note that Schaffhausen has revised its policy and is now issuing the Extract from the Ledger for the BOAC Mark 11.
472 Discussions and CommentsMember since Dec. 18, 2009Northbridge,
Australia
Is it possible that with the popularity of the MK XI and the number that seem to be going back in for re-furbs that IWC keeps a number of spare dials rather than making to order and that all those spare dials are of the military spec rather than the BOAC spec and they simply put that dial on as part of a spa treatment?
Time is something invented by the Swiss to help sell more watches
1,931 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
bendy Wrote:Is it possible that with the popularity of the MK XI and the number that seem to be going back in for re-furbs that IWC keeps a number of spare dials rather than making to order and that all those spare dials are of the military spec rather than the BOAC spec and they simply put that dial on as part of a spa treatment?
All the parts appear to be IWC authentic, and your theory is most likely correct. This BOAC Mark 11 may have been to Schaffhausen for the famous spa and, since the original BOAC dial is no longer available, IWC used whatever Mark 11 dial they had at hand, with a broad arrow, without consideration to the fact that BOAC is not an air force of the Commonwealth. If IWC had installed a new dial/hands with the encircled T, the watch would have been correct, even if with a more modern dial.
250 Discussions and CommentsMember since June 24, 2001
Regarding the extract from the archives: This extract appears not to be the Certificate of Genuiness issued after physical examination, whether or not it is genuine BOAC, but a normal Extract from the Archives. The form for a Certificate of Genuiness for a Mk. 11 comprises some information peculiar for the Mk. 11 while this Extract gives the normal disclaimer, that for the period from 1868 to 1885 no ledgers survived.
1,931 Discussions and CommentsMember since Aug. 4, 2001
t.koenig Wrote:Regarding the extract from the archives: This extract appears not to be the Certificate of Genuiness issued after physical examination, whether or not it is genuine BOAC, but a normal Extract from the Archives. The form for a Certificate of Genuiness for a Mk. 11 comprises some information peculiar for the Mk. 11 while this Extract gives the normal disclaimer, that for the period from 1868 to 1885 no ledgers survived.
Regards
Th. Koenig
That is surprising indeed. Or may be not. IWC should have issued the Certificate of Genuineness, since these Mark 11s are not in the Ledger.
In late 2010 IWC declined to issue the Extract from the Ledger or the Certificate of Genuineness for my BOAC Mark 11, in the image above, after inspecting the watch in Schaffhausen. As a consolation prize, and after a very long email exchange, Schaffhausen agreed to send me a letter confirming my BOAC Mark 11 was authentic.
IWC justified this decision the following maner: -The Certificate of Genuineness could not be issued because my BOAC Mark 11 is a military Mark 11 (no case number) but did not have any military engravings, i.e. the broad arrow, the 6B/326, and the serial number/year. -The Extract from the Ledger could not be issued because my Mark 11 is a military Mark 11 (no case number), and there is no record of the sale.
These explanations appear rather lame in view of the fact that the Certificate of Genuineness clearly mentions that BOAC used IWC Mark 11. Now it appears that IWC has decided to issue the Extract from the Ledger for the BOAC Mark 11s, when it should be issuing the Certificate of Genuineness, but chooses to do it for a hybrid BOAC Mark 11, that does not conHform with the standard. I wonder what is the criteria being used, if any.
167 Discussions and CommentsMember since July 9, 2009
How very strange, IWC insisted I send them the watches, after I applied for a certificate for two of mine (Mk X and Mk 11). Here´s my Certifificate so both pictures are on one page to compare.
98 Discussions and CommentsMember since June 12, 2001
gents -- i have a speedbird nearly identical to the "correct" one shown above in terms of dial and with markings in the same pattern as the ebay specimen. couple of questions: any idea what "CS" stands for. "cooperative services" is the best i've come up with, since BOAC, in the southern hemisphere where they often operated and where old-style navigation (no beacons) was still in use during the life of the mark xi, flew mostly cooperative services routes. other ideas? also, i have seen other engraving patterns over the years. are there other correct engraving patterns? finally, any idea about the history of these other than the fact that BOAC bought them for pilots? any anecdotal evidence from pilots, etc? thanks!! M9
It is an obvious redial. The original dials of the Mark 11s from the first BOAC acquisition had the dial/hands of the original 1948 Mark 11s. That is not a problem since tools watches have a task, and will be modified as necessary to accomplish it.
What is very wrong is the "broad arrow" which should be exclusive to the military watches of the armed forces of the Commonwealth. BOAC, although state owned, was a civilian airline.
It is, however, very interesting to note that Schaffhausen has revised its policy and is now issuing the Extract from the Ledger for the BOAC Mark 11.
Images from the site.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 16 May, 2012 - 15:40
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Andrew
andrew.thomas1@mac.com
Time is something invented by the Swiss to help sell more watches
All the parts appear to be IWC authentic, and your theory is most likely correct. This BOAC Mark 11 may have been to Schaffhausen for the famous spa and, since the original BOAC dial is no longer available, IWC used whatever Mark 11 dial they had at hand, with a broad arrow, without consideration to the fact that BOAC is not an air force of the Commonwealth.
If IWC had installed a new dial/hands with the encircled T, the watch would have been correct, even if with a more modern dial.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 17 May, 2012 - 00:38
Good call. It is better to wait for the correct item than compromise and overpay for an hybrid.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Regards
Th. Koenig
That is surprising indeed. Or may be not. IWC should have issued the Certificate of Genuineness, since these Mark 11s are not in the Ledger.
In late 2010 IWC declined to issue the Extract from the Ledger or the Certificate of Genuineness for my BOAC Mark 11, in the image above, after inspecting the watch in Schaffhausen.
As a consolation prize, and after a very long email exchange, Schaffhausen agreed to send me a letter confirming my BOAC Mark 11 was authentic.
IWC justified this decision the following maner:
-The Certificate of Genuineness could not be issued because my BOAC Mark 11 is a military Mark 11 (no case number) but did not have any military engravings, i.e. the broad arrow, the 6B/326, and the serial number/year.
-The Extract from the Ledger could not be issued because my Mark 11 is a military Mark 11 (no case number), and there is no record of the sale.
These explanations appear rather lame in view of the fact that the Certificate of Genuineness clearly mentions that BOAC used IWC Mark 11.
Now it appears that IWC has decided to issue the Extract from the Ledger for the BOAC Mark 11s, when it should be issuing the Certificate of Genuineness, but chooses to do it for a hybrid BOAC Mark 11, that does not conHform with the standard.
I wonder what is the criteria being used, if any.
clepsydra
ad fontes...
Last edited: 18 May, 2012 - 01:50
Best Regards
Jimmy