5 Discussions and CommentsMember since July 3, 2012
I bought a new Spitfire Chrono that uses a new in-house movement, cal.89365 last week. I'm still in doubt about the difference between cal.89365 and Valjoux 7750 that was used in old version. Does anybody explore the mechanism, materials, innovation, not just about function? I've not seen any details on IWC web site.
I bought this watch because of an attractive design, not in-house movement. I don't care. It's not my concern. I just proud they use their own movement.
Many people says Hublot clone the Valjoux 7750 architecture and then adjust some mechanism and change some materials and then speak out loud "It's the first in-house movement".
That's why I'd like to know more about the deep details of cal.89365.
2. The calibre 89360 (and 89361 and presumably 89365, although I didn't ask) use a different system to deal with the drop in amplitude. It is not that the balance and hairspring are adjusted for isochronism (althought they are) but rather that there is a different design to the chronograph, using a so-called "vertical clutch". The vertical clutch is a new design technique and not used in IWC's outsourced chronographs, which are Valjoux based. A discussion of the design of the 89360 can be found, I believe, in the archives and is based on a discussion with Stefan Ihnen, who designed the c. 89360 and is now IWC's Technical Director. The avoidance of amplitude loss here is uniquely a matter of parts-design and not fine-tuning.
Regards, Shing | email iwcforme1976 (at) gmail (dot) com time does not change us. it just unfolds us. max frisch. all that really belongs to us is time; even he who has nothing else has that. baltasar gracian.
3,349 Discussions and CommentsMember since Sept. 14, 2001
The 89365 is inhouse, it has a flyback mechanism, the "watch in watch" feature wich is showing hours and minutes in the same dial like a second watch. Unfortunately the new Spitfire Pilot's chrono doesn't have that hour counting hand. And it has 68 hours power reserve instead of 44 in the 7750. But the 7750 had the day of week display that the 8936x doesn't feature. That display I liked a lot.
I haven't checked but when the 89360 came out with the Da Vinci I'm sure there were posts about it. It is totally different in design than a 7750, of which the first difference is that it uses a column wheel for the Chrono functions, rather than what essentially is a spring mechanism. That is more traditional, more costly and avoids a jump on starting. You can Google column wheel and learn much more about what it is.
It also has an innovative counter system ad the vertical clutch entioned below, as well as a different winding system. Also the parts are more in general.
You'll need to do a little research in the archives and the Net, but aside from both being echanical chronographs that tell elapsed time, and use a so-called Swiss lever escapement (as do virtually all mechanical watches) they really have nothing in common from a design perspective.
To supplement what I wrote, here's onr prior duscussion about the 89360, the predecessor of your movement: http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/16776/?page=1#post_193316
Among other characteristics it has a special winding system, a special shock absorber and a free-sprung balance. The latter is particularly important since regulation can be finer and the timing goes less out of whack (another search on free-sprung balances will help). That's in addition to the column wheel and longer autonomy, among other characteristics.
410 Discussions and CommentsMember since May 9, 2011
Hong Kong
There are at least two benefits with the new in-house movement: 1. longer power reserve 2. flyback function
I think it is essentially a replacement of the preivous IWC-modified 7750 movement, the 79350.
Sincerely, Kelvin Leung _______________________________________________________________________________________ Repeat after me: I don't need another IWC, I really don't need another IWC...
2 Discussions and CommentsMember since June 13, 2012
That being said, when the Spitfire chrono needs service overhaul/cleaning, will it be sent to Schaffhausen to have it done instead of in local area, like, in the U.S.just to maintain its being an in-house movement?
5 Discussions and CommentsMember since July 3, 2012
Thank you all...
And YESSSS.... thank you Michael, this is what I want to hear that this movement uses a vertical clutch and column wheel!!! That's amazing. One is an innovation to control the chronograph hand like in many modern chronograph watches and one is a traditional chronograph style.
A column wheel is a very complex mechanism. I had a column wheeled chronograph watches: PanoGraph, Datograph, Master Compressor Chronograph, PAM275, Zenith Striking 10th... this traditional style reflects the innovation from the past and more attractive when seeing through the transparent case back. But for cal.89365 I cannot see the movement from the case back and there's less details about this movement on catalog and web site. I think IWC should provide a much more details of their movements to get more user experiences from their customers.
Sample technical details I would like them to show: - balance wheel? - escapement? - main spring? - clutch? - base movement architecture? - decoration? etc. Because I think these will help them to get more user experiences. I know this is not a complicated watch like minute repeater or perpetual calendar that they usually show the inside, but some customer like me probably want to know what is inside the case and behind the design.
Anyway, I love a vertical clutch & column wheel... It's enough :)
2,081 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 7, 2005
minimalist Wrote:Thank you all...
Anyway, I love a vertical clutch & column wheel... It's enough :)
Hi,
I like to point out this thing because I think it's peculiar to this calibre.
Cal 89360 uses a (huge) column weel (and that's to avoid typical backlash when activating the chronograph funcions in, f.i. an horizontal column wheel chronograph) but the column wheel comands a sliding pinion, not a vertical clutch.
This is to keep the movement faithful to one of its main specifications and goals, which is not to lose amplitude while engaging the chrono functions.
In vertical clutch mechanism you'll have to confront with loss of amplitude when the chrono functions are off, due to friction between clutch rim and arms, this is not going to happen with IWC's solution which allows to counterbalance instead, the loss of amplitude when activating the column wheel, thanks to the peculiar design of the chrono functions and its energy clearing system.
The following is just an example of a vertical clutch, system you won't find inside cal. 89360.
If a found a detailed picture of calibre 89360, it would be simplier to show the differences.
I bought this watch because of an attractive design, not in-house movement. I don't care. It's not my concern. I just proud they use their own movement.
Many people says Hublot clone the Valjoux 7750 architecture and then adjust some mechanism and change some materials and then speak out loud "It's the first in-house movement".
That's why I'd like to know more about the deep details of cal.89365.
duration of power reserve would be one. some (non-exhaustive) information on other differences below:
89361 vs 89365:
http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/49800/
http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/57252/?page=2
Regards, Shing | email iwcforme1976 (at) gmail (dot) com
time does not change us. it just unfolds us. max frisch.
all that really belongs to us is time; even he who has nothing else has that. baltasar gracian.
Last edited: 8 December, 2012 - 16:07
Tilo
Last edited: 20 November, 2012 - 10:38
It also has an innovative counter system ad the vertical clutch entioned below, as well as a different winding system. Also the parts are more in general.
You'll need to do a little research in the archives and the Net, but aside from both being echanical chronographs that tell elapsed time, and use a so-called Swiss lever escapement (as do virtually all mechanical watches) they really have nothing in common from a design perspective.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Last edited: 7 July, 2012 - 14:33
http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/16776/?page=1#post_193316
Among other characteristics it has a special winding system, a special shock absorber and a free-sprung balance. The latter is particularly important since regulation can be finer and the timing goes less out of whack (another search on free-sprung balances will help). That's in addition to the column wheel and longer autonomy, among other characteristics.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
1. longer power reserve
2. flyback function
I think it is essentially a replacement of the preivous IWC-modified 7750 movement, the 79350.
Sincerely,
Kelvin Leung
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Repeat after me: I don't need another IWC, I really don't need another IWC...
Last edited: 8 July, 2012 - 06:44
And YESSSS.... thank you Michael, this is what I want to hear that this movement uses a vertical clutch and column wheel!!! That's amazing. One is an innovation to control the chronograph hand like in many modern chronograph watches and one is a traditional chronograph style.
A column wheel is a very complex mechanism. I had a column wheeled chronograph watches: PanoGraph, Datograph, Master Compressor Chronograph, PAM275, Zenith Striking 10th... this traditional style reflects the innovation from the past and more attractive when seeing through the transparent case back. But for cal.89365 I cannot see the movement from the case back and there's less details about this movement on catalog and web site. I think IWC should provide a much more details of their movements to get more user experiences from their customers.
Sample technical details I would like them to show:
- balance wheel?
- escapement?
- main spring?
- clutch?
- base movement architecture?
- decoration?
etc.
Because I think these will help them to get more user experiences. I know this is not a complicated watch like minute repeater or perpetual calendar that they usually show the inside, but some customer like me probably want to know what is inside the case and behind the design.
Anyway, I love a vertical clutch & column wheel... It's enough :)
Hi,
I like to point out this thing because I think it's peculiar to this calibre.
Cal 89360 uses a (huge) column weel (and that's to avoid typical backlash when activating the chronograph funcions in, f.i. an horizontal column wheel chronograph) but the column wheel comands a sliding pinion, not a vertical clutch.
This is to keep the movement faithful to one of its main specifications and goals, which is not to lose amplitude while engaging the chrono functions.
In vertical clutch mechanism you'll have to confront with loss of amplitude when the chrono functions are off, due to friction between clutch rim and arms, this is not going to happen with IWC's solution which allows to counterbalance instead, the loss of amplitude when activating the column wheel, thanks to the peculiar design of the chrono functions and its energy clearing system.
The following is just an example of a vertical clutch, system you won't find inside cal. 89360.
If a found a detailed picture of calibre 89360, it would be simplier to show the differences.
Hope this helps anyway :)
Regards,
Roberto
Last edited: 11 January, 2013 - 11:07