I am long ago registered on this Forum but never posted before, only lurking.. I like IWC watchmaking technic. I own a early 8541 but I regret it has not the hacking and I am thinking to rework my mvmt to add it. Has anyone ever made that mod before? thanks rgds
163 Discussions and CommentsMember since April 22, 2011
United Kingdom
Hi Lige, If you wish to add a stop lever to your 8541 in the same style as the 8541B or 8541BS,it may not be possible. There are 2 principal differences between the stop lever mainplates and the original mainplates: 1)A milled groove running from the right of the sliding pinion as far as the balance(where the lever moves from side to side). This is possible to recreate. 2)A post to carry the snail cam at the end of the stem,between the cut-out for the sliding pinion and the cut-out for the barrel. This may not be possible as there is a smaller area of metal between the cut-outs on the original movements. There have been many other methods of mounting stop levers over the years but I have never come across these added to an 8541. The easiest method of adjusting a movement to enable stopping of the balance/seconds hand, is to tighten the cannon pinnion. The movement will remain original and the watch can be set exactly on time by turning the hands a minute or two anti-clockwise until the seconds hand stops. As long as the hands are not turned back while the date mechanisim is engaged(21:00h to 03:00h) there will be no adverse effects on the movement. Leo
Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life.....Confucius
Leosweeneypod Wrote: As long as the hands are not turned back while the date mechanisim is engaged(21:00h to 03:00h) there will be no adverse effects on the movement. Leo
I'm not enough of a technician to disagree, but I will say that Philippe Stern of Patek Philippe told me otherwise, saying his watchmakers think it's undesirable to stop a balance wheel, and that's why (then) none of his watches had a stop mechanism.
Ive had an interesting reading of your posts, tnks!
I am glad I could read your qualified suggestions and surely will take good note of them.
The project I had certainly was the first suggested solution 1) , as in fact there too little space for solution 2). I also agree that is not advisable the easiest one in where to tight the cannon pinion, too stressy for the mvmt...
I would rather use the Elgin hack system used on the 539 in where the forward pin of the winding stem pushes a thin feather that stops the balance. That makes the system enough small in dimensions to not interfer with the barrel and with the centre wheel pinion. I would place the strip feather' fixing point on the right of the winding stem, which is roomy enough, and the feather passing on an angle shape in front of the pin so when the stem is retracted in setting position the feather leans softly on the balance.
Unfortunately I do not have a pic of the 8541 platine to study neither I could find a pic of the 8541B to check how the techs at IWC have made the hack mod nor I want to take my 8541 down to find the way to do it, I am too fond of it..so the question is, can I use a 853, which I may get easily, to experiment? According some Michael' articles I have read the two platines, 854x and 853x do not interchange, but to me it would be enough to know if the components' architecture has the same layout.
163 Discussions and CommentsMember since April 22, 2011
United Kingdom
Hi guys, The pros and cons of cannon pinion friction method of setting the watch on time will likely be debated as long as we have watches with seconds hands. Over the years,I have had many analytical discussions with technical directors and after-sales departments of the various brands I work with regarding this. IWC,Piaget,Panerai or VanCleef have never ruled for or against the method. Jaeger and Vacheron's opinions can be summed up as such: Why would we spend so much time developing,manufacturing,regulating and finishing a watch to run within a few seconds a day tollerance without offering the client,who has invested a large sum,the ability to set the timepiece on time? Taking this logic on board,all watches/brands leaving our UK service center,without hack-seconds,can be set on time to the second by turning the hands slightly anti-clockwise. We have never seen any evidence of reduced service intervals or other adverse effects due to this practice. Leo
Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life.....Confucius
I respect your opinion, and am not personally in a position to disagree. But --with respect--would you not concur that other experts, who are reasonable people, would disagree?
2,239 Discussions and CommentsMember since Nov. 16, 2004
I'm not enough of a technician to disagree, but I will say that Philippe Stern of Patek Philippe told me otherwise, saying his watchmakers think it's undesirable to stop a balance wheel, and that's why (then) none of his watches had a stop mechanism.[/QUOTE]
I was also told at the Patek factory that they do not expose the tourbillon because of the action of ultra-violet light on the oils in the movement. Having said that, there is a Patek skeleton watch which is the star lot of an upcoming auction in HK.
Omar Khayyám (Persia XI-XII Century) offered that Time should not only be measured in length but also in width due to the intrinsic difference between a minute or other depending on what is happening to the beholder... I wonder how a watch would look like...
I am long ago registered on this Forum but never posted before, only lurking.. I like IWC watchmaking technic. I own a early 8541 but I regret it has not the hacking and I am thinking to rework my mvmt to add it. Has anyone ever made that mod before?
thanks rgds
Lige
If you wish to add a stop lever to your 8541 in the same style as the 8541B or 8541BS,it may not be possible.
There are 2 principal differences between the stop lever mainplates and the original mainplates:
1)A milled groove running from the right of the sliding pinion as far as the balance(where the lever moves from side to side). This is possible to recreate.
2)A post to carry the snail cam at the end of the stem,between the cut-out for the sliding pinion and the cut-out for the barrel. This may not be possible as there is a smaller area of metal between the cut-outs on the original movements.
There have been many other methods of mounting stop levers over the years but I have never come across these added to an 8541.
The easiest method of adjusting a movement to enable stopping of the balance/seconds hand, is to tighten the cannon pinnion. The movement will remain original and the watch can be set exactly on time by turning the hands a minute or two anti-clockwise until the seconds hand stops. As long as the hands are not turned back while the date mechanisim is engaged(21:00h to 03:00h) there will be no adverse effects on the movement.
Leo
Last edited: 22 September, 2012 - 08:43
I'm not enough of a technician to disagree, but I will say that Philippe Stern of Patek Philippe told me otherwise, saying his watchmakers think it's undesirable to stop a balance wheel, and that's why (then) none of his watches had a stop mechanism.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Ive had an interesting reading of your posts, tnks!
I am glad I could read your qualified suggestions and surely will take good note of them.
The project I had certainly was the first suggested solution 1) , as in fact there too little space for solution 2). I also agree that is not advisable the easiest one in where to tight the cannon pinion, too stressy for the mvmt...
I would rather use the Elgin hack system used on the 539 in where the forward pin of the winding stem pushes a thin feather that stops the balance. That makes the system enough small in dimensions to not interfer with the barrel and with the centre wheel pinion. I would place the strip feather' fixing point on the right of the winding stem, which is roomy enough, and the feather passing on an angle shape in front of the pin so when the stem is retracted in setting position the feather leans softly on the balance.
Unfortunately I do not have a pic of the 8541 platine to study neither I could find a pic of the 8541B to check how the techs at IWC have made the hack mod nor I want to take my 8541 down to find the way to do it, I am too fond of it..so the question is, can I use a 853, which I may get easily, to experiment? According some Michael' articles I have read the two platines, 854x and 853x do not interchange, but to me it would be enough to know if the components' architecture has the same layout.
Many thanks for yr support and rgds
Enzo
Last edited: 25 September, 2012 - 07:24
I edited my previous post as I intended the Elgin 539,
tnks rgds
Enzo
There are some images of an 8541b in pieces posted by Greg Chalk here:
http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/56292/
Here are a couple of 853 mainplate images I found on the net:
The pros and cons of cannon pinion friction method of setting the watch on time will likely be debated as long as we have watches with seconds hands.
Over the years,I have had many analytical discussions with technical directors and after-sales departments of the various brands I work with regarding this.
IWC,Piaget,Panerai or VanCleef have never ruled for or against the method. Jaeger and Vacheron's opinions can be summed up as such: Why would we spend so much time developing,manufacturing,regulating and finishing a watch to run within a few seconds a day tollerance without offering the client,who has invested a large sum,the ability to set the timepiece on time?
Taking this logic on board,all watches/brands leaving our UK service center,without hack-seconds,can be set on time to the second by turning the hands slightly anti-clockwise. We have never seen any evidence of reduced service intervals or other adverse effects due to this practice.
Leo
I respect your opinion, and am not personally in a position to disagree. But --with respect--would you not concur that other experts, who are reasonable people, would disagree?
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
I was also told at the Patek factory that they do not expose the tourbillon because of the action of ultra-violet light on the oils in the movement. Having said that, there is a Patek skeleton watch which is the star lot of an upcoming auction in HK.
Last edited: 17 May, 2013 - 09:58
Very interesting post!
Cheers!
Regards,
Jeronimo
Omar Khayyám (Persia XI-XII Century) offered that Time should not only be measured in length but also in width due to the intrinsic difference between a minute or other depending on what is happening to the beholder... I wonder how a watch would look like...
Last edited: 27 October, 2012 - 08:54