2,081 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 7, 2005
Spot on Bas. The truth is that was a damned good watch, whatever its name.
How contemporary its look, how ahead of its times, the features he offered.
That's why I always think the watch itself, not the brand nor the name of the model nor anything else might take my attention away from the intrinsical qualities of the watch.
2,787 Discussions and CommentsMember since Jan. 5, 2002
Easy decision for me.
I have only Ings. with magnetic shielding in my collection.
But I would never buy another Ing. without magnetic shielding ! The huge size is another reason for me, to buy no new Ings. anymore.
But from my sight of view, It is no disadvantage that nearly all new Ings. don´t have magnetic shieldings, because it helps me to save my money for other brands :-)
225 Discussions and CommentsMember since April 18, 2012
I think we are stressing maybe the wrong point with the antimagnetic feature looked at only. The question that IWC should have asked itself is: Which are the aspects that make our Ingenieur watches different from other brand's watches and how can the DNA of the watch and its history be used to make this distinction? History is something no other brand can copy. Design can be copied, and some nasty tongues see the new Ingenieur designs partially copied from other brands located in Nyon or Le Brassus.
From that perspective, it looks to some people that IWC went for adapting a more fashion-oriented, short-living design than for a way to translate heritage into a modern time and making it beyond comparison to any other competitor. As most of the potential buyers will be in the Asian market, and most of them won't know or even care about the history of the watches, that strategy might pay off in the short term. But it puts off the really small minority who knows and cares about the DNA of the lines.
The risk however is that - on the expense of this short-term view - the brand in total will suffer from credibility, as it becomes arbitrary. It is so easy to copy... I am a strong believer of true values, and therefore I will never buy a diving watch that would not allow me to go diving - even if I will never do so.
Or if you like another comparison: Most the people buying fast cars will never drive as fast as the car could and use all the horsepower. Others with an Offroader will never use their car off-road. But they would not have bought their cars if they knew they wouldn't ever be able to do that.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
regulateur Wrote: As most of the potential buyers will be in the Asian market, and most of them won't know or even care about the history of the watches, that strategy might pay off in the short term.
While I believe that you make some good points, I must object to the use of any ethnic or geographic stereotypes or generalizations here. Some generalizations can't be founded on empirical evidence and there is a certain moral objection to such. Please don't here.
225 Discussions and CommentsMember since April 18, 2012
Michael Friedberg Wrote in reply to:
regulateur Wrote: As most of the potential buyers will be in the Asian market, and most of them won't know or even care about the history of the watches, that strategy might pay off in the short term.
While I believe that you make some good points, I must object to the use of any ethnic or geographic stereotypes or generalizations here. Some generalizations can't be founded on empirical evidence and there is a certain moral objection to such. Please don't here.
Michael
To me, it has nothing to do with stereotypes: It is a question of the maturity of a market. The brand awareness for IWC in Asia is different and "younger" than for example in Europe. That's all I meant. But maybe that's my SwEnglish not being sufficient to express what I mean.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
3,730 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 28, 2001
Short term gain versus long term gain. I hear that argument often in these kind of discussions. To me it is clearer that the short term gain can be achieved than that the long term gain will be lost. Chances are that the argument is made more for the arguments sake than that it is necessarily true. The latter cannot be proven right now anyway.
There are two forces that work against each other. One is flexibility and adaptation, successful concepts for survival. The other is consequence, perseverence, tradition, adherence to some concepts of the past. It often stands for high moral values, fighting spirit, trust. I guess both ways of thinking are necessary to be successful.
The question here is, is the antimagnetic property vital for the Ingenieur line, or can it be sacrificed for other properties? The example of the divers watch may lead the way here. With a watch that starts leaking water at 40 meters you cannot dive. With a watch with no antimagnetic cage you cannot, well, cannot do what? And if the watch maybe once in five years gets disturbed by magnetic fields it is easily fixed in an inexpensive way. By repositioning the Ingenieur as a ruggedised sporty watch with an interesting name it might really be successful in the long run. I at least think it is too simple to declare that in this example in the long run gain will get into decline by not consequently putting an antimagnetic cage in every Ingenieur.
Kind regards, Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
3,730 Discussions and CommentsMember since March 28, 2001
By the way, do you expect a run on the now discontinued Mission Earth? I heard nobody lament its disappearance, its all too silent disapperarance. And it really was a true basic Ingenieur with all the nice properties like extra ruggedised in-house Pellaton 80110 movement, and of course the antimagnetic cage. Maybe this watch should be key in obtaining.
Kind regards, Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
To my thinking, the real coup that IWC could pull off would be to have an amagnetic Ingenieur AND a display back. It is possible with amagnetic materials for the escapement.
The problem, like most business issues, is cost vs. benefit. To develop such a movement would cost more, which would make sense only if it would sell more or if the current approach (display backs with non-amagnetic movements) don't sell. Unfortunately, the display back models often sell better and there's no proof that the costs here would justify the return.
5,019 Discussions and CommentsMember since May 29, 2003Sarasota, FL,
United States
@David, I am not buying the analogies you present. They work both ways. For example, there are certain cars I would not buy no matter how fast they are because I don't like the way they look. Same with an off road vehicle.
Same for watches. If I like the way it looks I'll overlook the antimagnetic shortcomings. And if its ugly ( to my eyes) it could withstand the pull of the North Pole but I won't own it.
225 Discussions and CommentsMember since April 18, 2012
Michael Friedberg Wrote:To my thinking, the real coup that IWC could pull off would be to have an amagnetic Ingenieur AND a display back. It is possible with amagnetic materials for the escapement.
The problem, like most business issues, is cost vs. benefit. To develop such a movement would cost more, which would make sense only if it would sell more or if the current approach (display backs with non-amagnetic movements) don't sell. Unfortunately, the display back models often sell better and there's no proof that the costs here would justify the return.
Michael, but that would indeed be an excellent idea to go for. Especially, as the current antimagnetic watches of IWC aren't really fully antimagnetic, because of the dial that is not soft iron anymore.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
How contemporary its look, how ahead of its times, the features he offered.
That's why I always think the watch itself, not the brand nor the name of the model nor anything else might take my attention away from the intrinsical qualities of the watch.
Regards,
Roberto
I have only Ings. with magnetic shielding in my collection.
But I would never buy another Ing. without magnetic shielding !
The huge size is another reason for me, to buy no new Ings. anymore.
But from my sight of view, It is no disadvantage that nearly all new Ings. don´t have magnetic shieldings, because it helps me to save my money for other brands :-)
Regards
HEBE
Last edited: 28 January, 2013 - 16:41
From that perspective, it looks to some people that IWC went for adapting a more fashion-oriented, short-living design than for a way to translate heritage into a modern time and making it beyond comparison to any other competitor. As most of the potential buyers will be in the Asian market, and most of them won't know or even care about the history of the watches, that strategy might pay off in the short term. But it puts off the really small minority who knows and cares about the DNA of the lines.
The risk however is that - on the expense of this short-term view - the brand in total will suffer from credibility, as it becomes arbitrary. It is so easy to copy... I am a strong believer of true values, and therefore I will never buy a diving watch that would not allow me to go diving - even if I will never do so.
Or if you like another comparison: Most the people buying fast cars will never drive as fast as the car could and use all the horsepower. Others with an Offroader will never use their car off-road. But they would not have bought their cars if they knew they wouldn't ever be able to do that.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
Last edited: 31 January, 2013 - 15:22
While I believe that you make some good points, I must object to the use of any ethnic or geographic stereotypes or generalizations here. Some generalizations can't be founded on empirical evidence and there is a certain moral objection to such. Please don't here.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
Michael
To me, it has nothing to do with stereotypes: It is a question of the maturity of a market. The brand awareness for IWC in Asia is different and "younger" than for example in Europe. That's all I meant. But maybe that's my SwEnglish not being sufficient to express what I mean.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
Last edited: 31 January, 2013 - 15:22
There are two forces that work against each other. One is flexibility and adaptation, successful concepts for survival. The other is consequence, perseverence, tradition, adherence to some concepts of the past. It often stands for high moral values, fighting spirit, trust. I guess both ways of thinking are necessary to be successful.
The question here is, is the antimagnetic property vital for the Ingenieur line, or can it be sacrificed for other properties? The example of the divers watch may lead the way here. With a watch that starts leaking water at 40 meters you cannot dive. With a watch with no antimagnetic cage you cannot, well, cannot do what? And if the watch maybe once in five years gets disturbed by magnetic fields it is easily fixed in an inexpensive way. By repositioning the Ingenieur as a ruggedised sporty watch with an interesting name it might really be successful in the long run. I at least think it is too simple to declare that in this example in the long run gain will get into decline by not consequently putting an antimagnetic cage in every Ingenieur.
Kind regards,
Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
Last edited: 28 January, 2013 - 21:37
Kind regards,
Paul
What you do may not be so important, but it is very important that you do it well. (my variation of a saying by Gandhi)
Last edited: 28 January, 2013 - 21:52
The problem, like most business issues, is cost vs. benefit. To develop such a movement would cost more, which would make sense only if it would sell more or if the current approach (display backs with non-amagnetic movements) don't sell. Unfortunately, the display back models often sell better and there's no proof that the costs here would justify the return.
Regards, Michael
mfriedberg@iwcforum.com
I am not buying the analogies you present. They work both ways. For example, there are certain cars I would not buy no matter how fast they are because I don't like the way they look. Same with an off road vehicle.
Same for watches. If I like the way it looks I'll overlook the antimagnetic shortcomings. And if its ugly ( to my eyes) it could withstand the pull of the North Pole but I won't own it.
Michael, but that would indeed be an excellent idea to go for. Especially, as the current antimagnetic watches of IWC aren't really fully antimagnetic, because of the dial that is not soft iron anymore.
You come from nothing, you go back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!
Last edited: 31 January, 2013 - 15:22