IWC Schaffhausen

Dear Michael,
I knew this fact from Alan Myers, the key researcher for the Jones calibers and the first author of the book on these icon IWC watches to be launched shortly from now. However, I did not find it appropiate to announce on the forum his next project : investigations on the Seeland calibers and the caliber 28 Bascule à Piliers, where this finding is part of.
But now, the case is clear : Ferdinand Seeland sent silver watch cases to Great Britain, to obtain the British markings. Although not allowed, this action was performed by Seeland. A letter on his action has been identified by Alan Myers researching the archives. Once the silver British hallmarked cases returned to Schaffhausen,they were used to build in the IWC Schaffhausen Seeland calibers. After that, most of the now completed watches were sent to Great britain for the local market. The advantages of this procedure has been pointed out by David perfectly.
For many collectors this thread might be not very interesting. For me and a few others it is a piece of history, pointing out the severe struggle of survival that Ferdinand Seeland undertook to save IWC from a second bankcrupty, only a few years after the founder F.A. Jones had failed.
In vain. Seeland had to admit that had failed too, but he did not admit this in public. The role of Ferdinand Seeland is a sad one. In the history of IWC he is described as a crook, manipulating figures. But as far as I know, there has never been one attempt to defend or support him.
Johann Rauschenbach, being in Gastein, where he was taking his waters ( which means that Rauschenbach was involved in a "Spa" treatment enjoying the medicinal water), had to return to Schaffhausen immediately during August 1979. He wrote :
" As you are well aware, our manager F.Seeland went away secretly at the beginning of August , just at the time of stock-taking; in the absence of the board of directors and without informing the company offices, he left with his family on a journey to America."
Already during the same month on August 25, 1879,the district court of of Schaffhausen took action and determined : "Order of confiscation of all furniture, starting with the coach and the horse of F. Seeland. The house is closed by the locksmith Mr. Habricht and the doors are bolted from within. The property( house, fields, garden and vinyard) of Seeland was sold to Russenberger & Sons for 49.500 Swiss Francs. This information has been published in : Tölke and King,IWC, International Watch Co, Schaffhausen.
When I read these words a feeling of sadness comes over me. How little has changed over nearly one and a half century in destructing a part of the life of a man and his family, when he fails in business. The history of Ferdinand Seeland is one that can be seen around you every day. If one fails the verdict may be very harsh!
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).

What a fascinating read. It is the type of information that makes this forum special. Thanks David for bringin it up.
Adrian: it is good to see you're still active and contributing to the heritage of IWC. I do wonder if we will ever learn who Seeland really was.
Peter (who still regret selling his Jones but is happy someone got it who takes good care of it, like you did)

Last edited: 7 February, 2013 - 18:18

Thank you, an excellent researched and very informative essay, David. Congratulations!
Besides the history of the Seeland watches, you pointed out clearly the difficulties resp. varieties in hallmarking of British silver due to imports until 1907.

@Adrian. I hope you will share betimes the forum your collection of Seeland PWs which I've seen last time. :)

Best regards

Hajo
Fair Winds and Following Seas

A most interesting thread on the conturbated early history of IWC. Thanks Davis and Adrian.

clepsydra
ad fontes...

David, Adrian, great reading and yet another angle to the history of IWC we Vintage Collectors, all so revere in studying.

Great post and very timely indeed, for me coming just at a moment I start a restoration project of a Seeland three‐quarter which was produced around 1879 - a Cal. 20 "bascule à pilier".

Best regards
Mark

Last edited: 16 April, 2013 - 00:36

beautiful piece of history wonderful encapsulated in the timepieces and ably told by historians. thanks for sharing.

Regards, Shing | email iwcforme1976 (at) gmail (dot) com
time does not change us. it just unfolds us. max frisch.
all that really belongs to us is time; even he who has nothing else has that. baltasar gracian.

8541 Wrote:Great post and very timely indeed, for me coming just at a moment I start a restoration project of a Seeland three‐quarter which was produced around 1879 - a Cal. 20 "bascule à pilier".

I'm glad this was interesting to some people, thanks to everyone who has contributed, and especially thanks to Adrian of course, without who it would never have happened.

This is forming part of a wider research project of mine into the UK hallmarking of foreign watches, which has turned out to be a good deal more interesting, and even surprising, than I thought. When it is finished I hope to write it up, perhaps for publication in the BHI Horological Journal.

To Mark, and to anyone else who has a Seeland watch with UK hallmarks, or any other watch with UK hallmarks come to that, if you would like me to have a look at your hallmarks and tell you what I see, then I am more than happy to do that. You can find my email address via my web site, or just email some pictures of the marks to David [dot] B [dot] Boettcher [at] gmail [dot] com.

Kind regards to everyone! David.

As others have commented, this is truly fascinating reading. Maybe IWC can add it to the FAQ section as an archive article for easy access.

Thanks to David and Adrian and all who added to this thread,

Bill

Last edited: 31 January, 2013 - 18:35

Congrats, a good read indeed. I also have another Pocket Watch full of Enlish Assay marks, a Tschopp-Boston (International Watch Co)...

If it´s of interest, I´d post pictures of this watch, or maybe even start a new thread, as it´s also a watch not seen that often. I know for a fact that Alan Myers has one with the same markings ;-)

Regards

Jimmy

Last edited: 31 January, 2013 - 22:19